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Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

reuters.com

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Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#241

Post by RustyRussell »

vkou wrote: post #126
l1ambda wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/ontario-now-recommend... "Ontario now recommending against Moderna vaccine for men 18-24 years old...This comes after public health officials determined there is a 1 in 5,000 risk of myocarditis — a form of heart inflammation — following a second dose of the Moderna vaccine."

Which is, by the way, still multiple orders of magnitude lower than the risk of myocarditis from catching COVID.

Can you provide data?

Here's the weekly Ontario report on vaccine side effects: at the end is the myocarditis/pericarditis breakdown:

https://www.publichealthontario.ca/en/health-topics/immuniza...

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#242

Post by bjourne »

8note wrote: post #215
bjourne wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the benefits outweigh the drawbacks for society you cannot make that calculation. You cannot administer a vaccine to a healthy person just because it doesn't increase their risk of dying as much as it decreases someone else's risk of surviving. Young healthy men should not be coerced into accepting an elevated risk because getting to herd immunity or whatever might save old and at risk persons. For children a…

I don't think that's the right question or comparison. If this young person below 30 gets a side effect from the vaccine, is that side effect worse than what they'd get by having the virus? It should be clear that we aren't going to suppress or eradicate covid, so you shouldn't be comparing getting the vaccine or nothing happening, but getting covid with or without the vaccine

It doesn't matter if the virus is worse than the vaccine since the vaccine is intentionally administered. Someone who is cautious might attempt to avoid the virus altogether thus their risk might be much lower than the average.

Furthermore, there is no guarantee that Covid won't mutate so that you will have to refill your vaccination every year to stay immune like with vaccines against the flu. If so, mass vaccinations probably won't be employed again and we'll only vaccinate at risk groups.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#243

Post by guywhocodes »

mactitan wrote: post #238
guywhocodes wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main assumption that is incorrect here is that there is no alternative to the mRNA vaccines targeting the spike protein. I'm not against vaccination but I would not recommend it to anyone after what it did to my body. Whatever it is. Give me anything else and I'll take it, all I need is COVID risk reduction and due to where I am it will likely be one of the Chinese alternatives.

Can you elaborate? I know of a few females who had irregular menstrual bleeding. I’ve posted this before. I’d like to understand this better: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7645850/ THE RISK OF ADE IN COVID‐19 VACCINES IS NON‐THEORETICAL AND COMPELLING

I've had crippling chest pains and ended up in the ER after a heartattack-like symptoms later to be determined as "spasms with unknown cause". My cardiologist can't diagnose it, says he need and MRI which I would have to pay for out of pocket.

3 months later and I can do some degree of exercise but not the same amounts as before. I know more people, that I meet in person, with similar symptoms, just lesser degree and they have recovered faster. A couple fully.

There is definitely something going on here that is not being talked about because it's inconvenient. It's unnecessary as it only happens with one specific type of vaccine applied to a specific part of the disease. The effects last long enough that it's worth being cautious.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#244

Post by acchow »

pixl97 wrote: post #141
CheezeIt wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That number for under 30’s is full of people who are extremely fat or otherwise have preexisting health problems. If you’re under 30 and seemingly healthy your fatality rate is much lower.

40% of Americans are obese. States with the highest level of obesity also have the lowest rate of vaccination. An even higher number has a very poor idea of the state of their health. Never assume you're healthy.

To make matters worse "Only 22.2% of obese women and 6.7% of obese men correctly classified themselves as obese"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3234679/

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#245

Post by amluto »

CRConrad wrote: post #186
yes_man wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://thl.fi/en/web/thlfi-en/-/thl-monitoring-myocarditis-... According to Finnish Institute for Health and Welfare, an additional 4 cases per 100k men under the age of 30. They also note that having covid is a risk factor for myocarditis. So perhaps still worth it to take the shot. Possibly they are doing this to put out the antivax wildfires in social media by reacting to statistical information about risks. So a…

> They also note that having covid is a risk factor for myocarditis. So perhaps still worth it to take the shot. No: Absolutely not worth it to take that particular shot, as there are others available which don't have that side effect.

The best available data suggests that _that_ particular shot is rather more effective after a few months than its competitors.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#246

Post by cletus »

iratewizard wrote: post #220
cletus wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USDA/AHA > Tucker Carlson (who is vaccinated BTW) > If you want to listen to a bunch of well meaning morons ... Oh the irony. The sad reality is that anti-vaxxers are highly susceptible to being manipulated and that is actively happening by people who are completely hyprocritically doing so for their own personal gain. Every living president (including Trump) and governor is vaccinated. All but 3 Senators are vaccina…

Why do you assume I get information from the idiot box? Is it because that's where you get all of yours? You clearly have no idea what I was saying if your first statement tries to say the AHA is more of an authority than some TV taking head.

Why do you assume your sources are any better? Or even different?

At the end of the day I honestly don't really care what flavour of irrational hyper-selfishness it is, to be perfectly honest.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#247

Post by RustyRussell »

iratewizard wrote: post #157
timothycrosley wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we are sharing meaningless anecdotes, almost everyone I know (since I live in Seattle) has been vaccinated. No one has reported any issues, a couple have since successfully had a child. None have even gotten a breakthrough infection of covid. Among friends I know from back east, who haven't gotten vaccinated, one had just turned 30, only health issue was obesity. He died. One was 35, best shape of any of my fri…

What's the hospitalization rate for 20s - 40s for getting the vaccine? What's the hospitalization rate for covid?

Ontario data on vaccine side effects, particularly peri/myocarditis, by age:

https://www.publichealthontario.ca/-/media/documents/ncov/ep...

Note that only 55% were hospitalized, average stay 2 days.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#248

Post by iratewizard »

cletus wrote: post #246
iratewizard wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you assume I get information from the idiot box? Is it because that's where you get all of yours? You clearly have no idea what I was saying if your first statement tries to say the AHA is more of an authority than some TV taking head.

Why do you assume your sources are any better? Or even different? At the end of the day I honestly don't really care what flavour of irrational hyper-selfishness it is, to be perfectly honest.

I assume they're better after skimming your long and arduous propaganda talking points, mong.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#249

Post by RustyRussell »

pstuart wrote: post #54
tomp wrote: post #20

In 6 months we've gone from "vaccines are 100% safe and well tested and there's no chance of long-term side effects whatsoever" to 3 out of 4 "main" vaccines being not recommended for different groups of people. Great for science, not so great for trust in public officials & experts.

Vaccines have never been promoted as 100% safe nor 100% effective.

Australian here. I wish this were true: the messaging here has been extremely simplistic.

I expect a backlash when we're 80% vaccinated and COVID doesn't magically vanish :(

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#250

Post by azinman2 »

marvin wrote: post #142
azinman2 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

44.1M verified cases in the out of 329.5M ~= 13%, and that's with verified cases, so it's likely much higher. My guess is younger people are even more likely to get it given their lifestyle is highly social at that age, and risk tolerance is similarly high. Given it's not slowing down, the likelihood of getting covid is actually quite high over time.

These are US numbers, though. Norway, e.g., has tested like crazy and diagnosed 4% of its population with covid throughout the pandemic. Given that the US numbers for covid cases are at least three times higher, the risk assessment will necessarily be different. The Scandinavian solution will likely be to just delay vaccination for a week while a dose of the Pfeizer vaccine is tracked down. The change of contracting…

That 4% will only go up over time. Per the article they’re only stopping a select demographic for Pfizer.
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