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The mutation that helps Delta spread

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Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#241

Post by walterbell »

schmichael wrote: post #89
hncurious wrote: post #70

Covid is going to be endemic like the flu and cold. It's not going to be eradicated, unfortunately, and I don't think we've come to terms with this yet. Now what's our plan exactly? Get vaccinated every 6 - 12 months indefinitely and always wear masks? What's our goal and what's our new normal?

I already get vaccinated every 12 months for the flu, so that seems like a fine plan to me.

We have many years of data on flu vaccine safety.

Should the flu vaccine be combined with newer vaccines which have numerically less safety data?

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#242

Post by ssklash »

travoc wrote: post #180
ssklash wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Lockdowns should have stopped covid. Not everyone cooperated with lockdowns, rendering them less effective. > - Masks should have stopped covid. Not everyone wore masks, rendering them less effective. > - Vaccines should have stopped covid. Not everyone is getting vaccinated, rendering it less effective. I see a pattern here with an obvious solution, and it's not doubting the "true" science and declaring ourselve…

Each of these scenarios was predictable and in fact, predicted by many. Yet here we are, still pretending to be shocked at the intensity of human autonomy. If your plan requires everyone on earth to cooperate, it’s not a good plan.

You realize that the way other diseases were eradicated required the cooperation of everyone on earth? Or at least in most countries. The reason we don't get polio in virtually any country on earth is because of global cooperation in the face of a disease with a known mitigation. Barely 500 known cases world-wide in 2019. Thanks to global cooperation. Too bad propaganda and social media probably ruined our chances of repeating such a feat...

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#243

Post by amznthrwaway »

irthomasthomas wrote: post #208
loosescrews wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that it appears that it is still unknown how likely breakthrough infections are to result in long Covid. The very limited data that does exist indicates that the likelyhood is rather high (~20%). https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/16/well/live/vaccine-long-co...

Long Covid has the same symptoms as stress, anxiety and depression, which are to be expected after contracting a pandemic level virus and being forced to isolate. Is there any proof yet that it is any more than that?

Long covid also shows itself in lung function, with decreased vo2max, visible lung damage, etc.

I am unsurprised that this disinformation was posted by a user who posts right-wing extremist propaganda nearly exclusively.

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#244

Post by xboxnolifes »

hncurious wrote: post #70

Covid is going to be endemic like the flu and cold. It's not going to be eradicated, unfortunately, and I don't think we've come to terms with this yet. Now what's our plan exactly? Get vaccinated every 6 - 12 months indefinitely and always wear masks? What's our goal and what's our new normal?

I'm not sure if this is technically feasible, but maybe a yearly covid shot just gets added to the flu shot routine. Either through the same shot, or two shots in one visit.

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#245

Post by tommymachine »

jmfldn wrote: post #235
tommymachine wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have awareness that your anecdotal data, even if it were more than anecdotal, still would not prove that the shots you've taken reduced the symptoms, as many cases are asymptomatic / mild symptoms anyways?

Sure, it's anecdotal not proof and in no way scientific my self assessment. I've just noticed a trend amongst friends recently.

The criticism I made wasn't about the anecdotal nature of your post, but the lack of logic in the conclusions you drew from it.

It's amazing how people of your persuasion must avoid at all cost viewing their own thinking from a logical framework.

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#246

Post by tasogare »

jmfldn wrote: post #151

Purely anecdotal but I'm double vaccinated (Astra Zeneca) and I caught Covid recently. It was probably Delta as 99% of cases in UK are. I know of quite a few vaccinated friends who've caught it recently too. Mainly AZ I think but one was Pfizer (single jabbed). Anyway, none of us had severe illness although I felt pretty rough for a few days like I had a really bad cold and smell went for a week completely. I was bas…

> The point is that it does seem like this Delta variant breaks through regularly and it does seem (again, purely anecdotal) like it's v infectious. Of course the thing to emphasise is that, whilst it might break through, the vaccine still stops serious illness to a high degree.

If numbers from IHU Méditerranée are to be believed, the Indian variant is about 6 times less dangerous than the English one. Way more infectious and less dangerous, the latter part helped mutating it to the former. And that's the numbers without taking vaccination into account.

I wish medias would relay the information fully instead of spreading fear by only telling about the more infectious part. If indeed less dangerous this is a very good news that this strain is spreading more.

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#247

Post by paganel »

kaoD wrote: post #194
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just dont see how getting a shot every year or six months for eternity is a viable solution. Not only that, vaccinated individuals can encourage new mutations (this is controversial, but I believe over time it will be realized)

> I just dont see how getting a shot every year or six months for eternity is a viable solution What do you mean? We have yearly flu vaccinations.

> We have yearly flu vaccinations.

Where I live (Eastern Europe) those are taken by a minority of the population.

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#248

Post by TurkishPoptart »

kaoD wrote: post #194
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just dont see how getting a shot every year or six months for eternity is a viable solution. Not only that, vaccinated individuals can encourage new mutations (this is controversial, but I believe over time it will be realized)

> I just dont see how getting a shot every year or six months for eternity is a viable solution What do you mean? We have yearly flu vaccinations.

Yes, but flu shots are entirely voluntary. Meanwhile, there's legislation being considered in the U.S. to put people on Do Not Fly lists for not showing proof of being "fully" vaccinated. And who knows how far the goalposts can move when it comes to what "fully" vaccinated means. Next year, that might mean having had 4 shots, or more.

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#249

Post by eecc »

criticaltinker wrote: post #227
jdavis703 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, as long as COVID-19 fills up hospitals we should do this. Not having hospitals seriously compromises quality of life. I had untreated kidney stones for about a week at the peak of the pandemic. When I was in the middle of an attack I could not work, the pain was too severe. I was missing several hours of work everyday just dealing with pain. I finally got to the emergency room which did basic imaging and gave m…

First off, I'm sorry you had to suffer like that - and I don't want anyone to be denied healthcare. > I’d rather vaccinate and mask up then be denied healthcare You've presented a false dichotomy here - mass vaccination and masking will not necessarily prevent overwhelmed hospitals. Israel is a prime example - with one of the highest vaccination rates in the world - their hospitals are being overwhelmed right now due…

Only 66% of Israelis are fully vaccinated: there's a good 3 million hard-core religious orthodox who won't let science interfere with their deity's will.

3 million of blissfully and deliberately ignorant individuals who won't adapt their social behavior to avoid viral spread is more than enough to overrun any health system.

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#250

Post by nitrogen »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #210
irthomasthomas wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long Covid has the same symptoms as stress, anxiety and depression, which are to be expected after contracting a pandemic level virus and being forced to isolate. Is there any proof yet that it is any more than that?

Stress, anxiety and depression don't show up as lung damage on MRI scans.

What are the stats on that, especially vs. other severe respiratory diseases?

Asking because I've had "long covid" since long before there was a COVID, so either everyone's making a bigger deal out of it than necessary, or I'm actually much worse off relative to normal than I thought and I should really be questioning my doctors.

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