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Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

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Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#241

Post by arcticbull »

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #228
arcticbull wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I wanted to provide help to the poor without involving my religion, I would do so by donating to charities that aren't religious, or I would do so away from church. Religious institutions help the poor in part as a recruiting drive. That doesn't mean the poor don't benefit, of course, but it is opportunistic IMO. > I HAVE seen the state fail to help after burning through millions in many places. Sure, but that's a…

>If I wanted to provide help to the poor without involving my religion, I would do so by donating to charities that aren't religious, That's what I'm referring to, you'd donate to professionals, but would you do any of it yourself?

That's a great call out, actually. I haven't, but I should.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#242

Post by jpgvm »

deertick1 wrote: post #61
nvrspyx wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone that doesn't abhor religion, the following isn't meant as argumentative, but rather curiosity: > Religion serves a very important role in society and we abandon it at our peril. What "important role" might that be? I don't see the necessity of religion and don't think there's anything inherent of religions that can't be supplemented by the surrounding culture.

I think that reasoning about morality without an irrational, faith-based approach leads to a "slippery slope" if you will of reasoning. Essentially, I believe that the fundamental utility of religion is that it provides a framework for morality which is external to logic : therefore it allows one to establish moral barriers which cannot be cross regardless of any logical rationalization. This is important when consid…

I think logic builds a stronger moral foundation than religion ever could.

Almost all of the worst atrocities in history have be committed due to faith/some other non-logical idealism. In this way relgion does very little to create a "hard line that can't be crossed" in fact it's often used as the justification.

Empathy can be derived from logic and is sufficient for deriving modern morality.

I'm not saying all religion is bad, just that it doesn't have utility over and beyond logic. Logic is more than sufficient to establish all of the perceived benefits of religion with none of the inherent risks/downsides of organised religions.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#243

Post by axguscbklp »

mullingitover wrote: post #234
axguscbklp wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Clusters of cells can't be 'tortured in a lab,' There is actually no way to know whether this is true. About all you can justifiably say is something like, "if it turns out that clusters of cells can experience suffering, well... we are already probably causing suffering anyway all the time to chickens and cows and who knows to what else, so it would not really be much of a change". It is tempting to say that someth…

I mean you obviously can't prove a negative, but it stands to reason that a biochemical automaton is no more capable of 'suffering' than a wristwatch. Suffering, as humans define it, is really only possible with consciousness.

Yes, there can be no suffering without consciousness. However, I do not know of any way to determine whether any being other than oneself is conscious.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#245

Post by knolax »

drukenemo wrote: post #119

I know I’ll be downvoted, but here it goes: there’s an implicit and unavoidable act of rebellion (to a potential God), in this and other similar scientific research. Even if you’re atheist, you cannot escape the underlying reference to a Biblical story: I want the freedom to be like a God.

What if I belong to a monkey worshipping cult whose god commands man to create hybrid monkey-men?

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#246

Post by knolax »

I don't get the scientific value of this. What can be learned from doing this opposed to observing normal human embryos?

If it's done for ethical reasons then I don't see how injecting human cells in an monkey embryo then killing them is more ethical than just killing human cells.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#247

Post by yesenadam »

nojokes wrote: post #212
ganafagol wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things can't be further detached from reality. Once you ever spend a few days with a herd of cows, you get a feeling for their personalities, their joy, their pain. Comparing to a group of humans, be it kids on a playground or some factory worker, you really start to wonder why in one case we allow ownership, life-long suffering and death under excruciating pain, while in the other case those things are punished by l…

Did you know that when you cut grass it sends out distress signal - the lovely smell of fresh cut grass. In principle it is the grass screaming out loud in horror. https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/30573/what-causes-fresh-... Unfortunately we can't survive without hurting other species.

> we can't survive without hurting other species.

I'm not sure about the purpose of your comment, but it sounds like your conclusion is "therefore can do whatever we want to other species." As if ethics doesn't apply. As if we shouldn't try to minimize that hurt. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

Paragraph speculating about such arguments and why people use them:

Hopefully one day soon people aren't still offering "plant=animal" justifications of eating animals, like this. I find them very depressing. It's as if suffering is a joke to these people. Or something, I don't understand. Just repeating pro-meat arguments they've heard, I guess. Maybe it's a positive sign, and such comments try to bury unease from their growing sense of ethical responsibility to other species.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#248

Post by yesenadam »

6510 wrote: post #222
scoopertrooper wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are also great at personifying non-person things. The grass isn't 'screaming out in horror', rather it's emitting a chemical that its evolved to emit in response to certain stimuli.

Its one giant organism, we are awfully hung up on that its parts are not touching and imagined some fringe type of individualism like covering your eyes with your hands makes you invisible. We are nothing without context. We are slaughtering, maiming and torturing people (plants and animals) all of the time, non stop, since the beginning. We build ever more sophisticated machines to do it. I cant even look at the but…

> Chimeras might actually improve the situation

Stopping supporting the animal-killing and animal-experimentation industries as far as you easily can, would improve the situation.

i.e. Stop eating "meat". And imagine the oceans without humans fishing them lifeless.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#249

Post by nojokes »

yesenadam wrote: post #247
nojokes wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you know that when you cut grass it sends out distress signal - the lovely smell of fresh cut grass. In principle it is the grass screaming out loud in horror. https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/30573/what-causes-fresh-... Unfortunately we can't survive without hurting other species.

> we can't survive without hurting other species. I'm not sure about the purpose of your comment, but it sounds like your conclusion is "therefore can do whatever we want to other species." As if ethics doesn't apply. As if we shouldn't try to minimize that hurt. Maybe I'm wrong about that. Paragraph speculating about such arguments and why people use them: Hopefully one day soon people aren't still offering "plant=a…

I would like to interpret it as do least harm as reasonably possible.

I would also like to see artificial meat to appear. Then the large number of current captive animals could be "retired".

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#250

Post by pulse7 »

bserge wrote: post #202
pulse7 wrote: post #159

Ethical question: If one kills a human-monkey hybrid - will he go to prison?

That's more of a legal question, isn't it? At least in the US and EU, there will be prison time. The length of the sentence depends on whether they're convicted of murdering a human, animal or both.

If you kill a chicken in Europe, you will not go to prison - at least in my country which is in EU.
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