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Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

theintercept.com

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Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#241

Post by ASalazarMX »

nullserver wrote: post #19

Israel is fighting for its existence. Iran leadership routinely makes threats to destroy America and Israel. This often get ignored or dismissed. But like waving a gun in a cops face. Well bad things happen. One nuke will piss America off. One nuke and Israel will just be gone, completely. Iran is probably capable of this, or close. From Israel standpoint the logical step is to bomb Iran military into the Stone Age.…

Completely off-topic, but I really dislike the writing style of your comment: short, isolated sentences stated as facts, like many religious texts.

It reminds me of Hemingway, with the difference that he was able to write full paragraphs.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#242

Post by whimsicalism »

Alupis wrote: post #211
whimsicalism wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rational actors don't take freight ships hostage not kidnap tourists. Israel has kidnapped tourists before. Vanunu is still trapped in Israel. Where has Iran said that they intend to use nuclear weapons?

> Israel has kidnapped tourists before. Vanunu is still trapped in Israel. Mordechai Vanunu? His situation is quite a bit different than kidnapping a tourist that literally has done nothing to Iran except show up - or a freight ship traversing international waters. Vanunu leaked a ton of nuclear secrets about Israel and fled - ie, he was no tourist and your point makes no sense. Whataboutism isn't a good reason to ex…

He was a tourist in Italy when he was abducted.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#243

Post by eunos »

CivBase wrote: post #137
eunos wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leverage for the next JCPOA.

Could you elaborate on what kind of leverage this gives them? Does anyone doubt they had the capability to employ more efficient centrifuges and enrich uranium beyond 20% prior to this. How does choosing to actually do those things benefit them in negotiations? If the criminal in a hostage situation starts shooting their hostages, does that give them leverage in negotiations? I would think it just devalues their host…

In this case the prev-police broke a promise with the criminal, while the criminals held other VVIP hostages. Current police hates the prev-police , but thats fait accompli.

In addition unlike irreversible killings, they can freeze high enrichment as leverage. Of course both party must let IAEA do the works.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#244

Post by whimsicalism »

fastball wrote: post #240
whimsicalism wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thousand*, my fault for making it plural.

A mostly pointless nitpick on my part. Regardless though, I'm not sure "Jews weren't being attacked because there weren't many Jews to attack" is much of an argument.

"The Nakba is not the reason for animosity against Israel because there were attacks against Jews prior to the Nakba" doesn't strike me as a solid argument either.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#245

Post by weeblewobble »

pcbro141 wrote: post #29

> it appears the facility’s main power distribution equipment was taken out with explosives How do the Israelis keep managing to get explosives into Natanz? They blew up a hall last July. I would have thought everyone entering the premises goes through a body scanner like an airport to make sure you're not carrying bombs, spy cameras, etc.

I don't know the answer to your question, but if you're interested in this topic I highly recommend Rise and Kill First by Ronen Bergman. Very well-sourced and readable account of Israeli spycraft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rise_and_Kill_First

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#246

Post by systemvoltage »

whimsicalism wrote: post #122
systemvoltage wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel is a democracy, has human rights, conducts elections, has free trade and great tech scene, currency is stable and they've got one of the best intelligence agencies. Israel's population is some 9 million which is half of Beijing city and little bit larger than SF Bay Area. Let's contrast it with fundamentalist Iranian islamic government, hell bent on developing nuclear weapons despite of non-proliferation treat…

Iran is a danger, but Saudi Arabia isn't? Israel is occupying Palestine, mobility controlled by checkpoints and passes a la South Africa, and actively takes actions to ensure that non-jewish people do not gain a majority in the country. Israel extends a "right of return" only to displaced people who are of a certain ethnicity.

When did I bring up Saudi Arabia?

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#247

Post by dragonwriter »

ars wrote: post #184
whimsicalism wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is hard to say that it is entirely anti-semitism and unrelated to what happened in Mandatory Palestine.

Attacks on Jews by Muslims LONG predate Mandatory Palestine.

Attacks by Christians against Muslims long predate 9/11, but that doesn’t mean that attacks by certain specific predominantly Christian groups against certain specific Muslims, particularly in and around Central and South Asia starting shortly after 9/11 were not motivated by the 9/11 attacks by al-Qaeda.

If you can accept that, the same thing with “events related to Mandatory Palestine” in place of 9/11, Muslims in place of Christians, and Jews in place of Muslims should not be much of a stretch.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#248

Post by monocasa »

hoka-one-one wrote: post #166
whimsicalism wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are ethnic minorities extended the "right of return" in Israel? Last I checked this was not the case.

Yes, if they convert to Judaism. Seems reasonable, Judaism doesn't ban any ethnic minorities.

That's actually not as clear as you might think.

https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2020/10/15/...

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#249

Post by whimsicalism »

mamon wrote: post #174
knowaveragejoe wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elaborate on what you think they should see in the mirror.

If one person thinks you're an asshole they might simply be wrong about you. If everyone in the world thinks you're an asshole then you, almost by definiton, are one. There's a reason why there's a separate word in most languages for "anti-semitism" but not for "anti-italianism" or "anti-brasilianism".

Eesh, I am not a fan of the modern Israeli state, which I consider to be pseudo-apartheid, but this is straight up anti-semitism.

Surprised to see that here.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#250

Post by moyasari »

mvzvm wrote: post #50
hoka-one-one wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Israel that much different? It seems like if you're committed to empowering all BIPOC you would not restrict their access to the weaponry needed to defend their homelands. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

Israel is not governed by religious law, and has full rights for women, minorities, and LGBTQ. Its basis for most policy is a blend of social democracy and neoliberalism. Its military is purely defensive. I cannot say any of those things about Iran in good faith. Also, the what-about-ism is not a great defense of anything geopolitical btw.

Purely defensive? What a joke. The Zionist Apartheid state of Israel was literally formed by stealing the land of Palestine and murdering its population. So much for "self defense".
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