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Me and ADHD

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Re: Me and ADHD

#241

Post by PragmaticPulp »

username90 wrote: post #233
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. It’s true that ADHD patients will likely react differently to stimulants, but the exact differences have been greatly exaggerated online. There are some studies showing that some people respond better to Ritalin than Adderall and vice versa. Prescribers should try switching medications if the patient doesn’t respond. Most people will experience increased focus when first taking stimulants, ADHD or not. Ma…

> Most people will experience increased focus when first taking stimulants, ADHD or not. This isn't true, studies has shown that taking stimulants has no effects on grades for normal people. The "increased focus" they experience is just perception and not fact, it can even hurt their ability to focus. Being able to sit with a task for hours isn't "focus". https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/news/20180726/adhd-meds-no-he..…

No, the article you linked specifically supports my point. In the middle of your article it says:

> The students also showed an improvement in their alertness and their ability to focus, the researchers found.

The idea that only ADHD people see improved focus from stimulants is purely false, as indicated by the article you provided. It's a dangerous misconception, as many people use this misunderstanding to self-diagnose as ADHD when they take their friends' stimulant medication and experience improved focus. We need to be clear that non-ADHD patients still feel increased focus from stimulants as well.

You are correct that over-medicating with stimulant medications can harm certain types of cognitive function, in both ADHD and non-ADHD people. Dopamine has a well-known inverted U shaped response curve for certain cognitive processes. Going too far past the optimal point can worsen, not increase the focus changes.

The study also used a strangely high dose of Adderall. 30mg of instant release Adderall (equivalent to 60mg of Adderall XR) is actually beyond the recommend prescribing guidelines for ADHD. That's the type of dose that would typically only be prescribed to patients with severe narcolepsy or severe, intractable ADHD. I'm not sure why they thought it was a good idea to give it to medication-naive study subjects.

Re: Me and ADHD

#242

Post by PragmaticPulp »

username90 wrote: post #237
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and this is a very important point. Many newly diagnosed ADHD patients make the mistake of thinking that they don't need therapy or self-help techniques now that they have stimulant medication. That's wrong. The stimulant medication should be used as an adjunct to therapy, self-habit, and developing good self-control techniques. The initial motivational boost of a new stimulant prescription won't last forever (c…

A person with ADHD on medication isn't in any greater need of therapy or self help than a normal person. Normal people can also have problems staying on task etc, most of them still don't need therapy.

Self help includes things like the healthy habits described in this article.

Anyone with ADHD severe enough to warrant stimulant medication is absolutely in need of good self-control habits and other such improvements. Therapy is one way to get it done, but I never suggested it was the only way.

It's a common mistake for newly diagnosed ADHD patients to assume that medication will automatically build good habits for them. That's not true. Medication is best combined with a deliberate effort to improve self-control and create positive environments for focus, as many ADHD patients have explained elsewhere in this comment section.

Re: Me and ADHD

#243

Post by falcolas »

opiate_addict wrote: post #195
username90 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All stimulants are addictive and you will have physical side effects from discontinuing use. I love those side effects though. It is so nice to stop taking them and feel cozy and rest for a few days. The best description I have for it is that it feels like when you get home from a hard days work and are tired and go sit down in your sofa and just relax. Just that the feeling lasts for days! Awesome, right? I hate b…

It's a much more difficult withdrawal for many/heavy stimulants users. brain fog, zaps, depression lasting months, messed up dopamine/glutamate and other brain crap. It sucks there aren't any good meds for addiction treatment for stimulants yet (naltrexone/bupe etc). Quitting meth, cocaine, prescription stims is really really hard.

I have never heard of someone having withdrawal symptoms from a prescription dosage of Adderal. I've kept my ears open for one, since this is an exceptionally common anecdote that someone's heard from someone else.

If you have, please point to a source - there's a lot of anecdotal FUD running rampant throughout this thread.

Re: Me and ADHD

#244

Post by logicslave »

specialjack wrote: post #126
logicslave wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long have you been taking it? The cracks will show years down the road, not initially.

Curious if you have any sources for this? I have heard this before and struggled to find data that backs it up.

I personally took it for a long time, have a few pharmacists in my family. General life experience along with many examples witnessed around me lead me to believe that there is no free lunch. The focus you get comes at a price

Re: Me and ADHD

#245

Post by sizzle »

username90 wrote: post #192
ADHDthrow2323 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The (largely mental) hyperactivity is controllable, that is, I retain my creative ideas generation and interest in new things, but I am no longer governed by it, and As a person who is in their 1st week of medication, that is a HUGE relief. Thank you. I have a lot more to comment here but have a quiz (engineering undergrad) to do rn..lol. But I gotta say your description of you experience is the most comprehensive…

I got diagnosed as an adult and it was life changing for me, has been on them for 5 years. Here are some tips: 1. Never take stimulants to have fun, just take them to do tasks to progress your life. ADHD doesn't prevent you from having fun, and having fun with stimulants is what makes them addictive. 2. Take regular breaks from the medication. You wont get much done the first day or two after, so don't plan on doing…

Taking breaks simply isn't possible for many, like the withdrawals translates to sleeping 16 hours a day and not having an iota of energy to do everyday activities. It is a vicious cycle the deeper you get into taking stims and feeling normal baseline response by finding your therapeutic dose, why would you want to feel acute withdrawal symptoms and get nothing done on med 'vacation days'?

Re: Me and ADHD

#246

Post by renewiltord »

opiate_addict wrote: post #204
renewiltord wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, my first adderall came from a friend who uses it to party. I can't see how. It makes me much quieter. Partying on it is something I can't even imagine.

Oh it's amazing. Especially if you drink a lot. I wouldn't be surprised to learn there are some amplifying chemical effects when combined similar to cocaine + alcohol -> cocaethylene Personally I am the other side of what you said lol I can't imagine that people don't feel it or don't enjoy it! addiction science is cool and evolving. i wonder if people have different inherent dopamine regulation/Glutamate chemistry i…

Haha, that's how she and others I know who use it like that use it. I'm just happy she gets something out of it. I don't, and that's okay. I still have fun, just not with Addy.

Re: Me and ADHD

#247

Post by utborin »

madamelic wrote: post #161
ryandrake wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a super-edge-case but if you happen to want to be a pilot (either small planes all the way up to airlines), the FAA considers ADHD and other attention-deficit conditions to be disqualifying. If you're taking medication for ADHD or similar conditions and want to be a pilot, you're dead in the water until you get off them and can show that you don't have some kind of attention difficulty. FYI!

Almost any medical condition disqualifies you. Almost any medication taken regularly does too. I am interested in getting my private pilot's license and I _should_ be able to get a Class 3 Medical from what I've seen, but that will be a bit away so I have time. What I've seen and heard from others is to just lie. Seems like many have gotten to the point of realizing trying to do it right is only going to put you in m…

Most common medical history items fall under something called CACI: Conditions AMEs Can Issue. (Yes, that's an acronym in an acronym. Welcome to the FAA. AME is the doctor you see for your flight physical, which you probably already know, but other readers might not.) The vast majority of folks walk out of their flight physicals with a medical certificate thanks to CACI.

ADHD does not fall under CACI, and will trigger a deferral to the FAA. The FAA will then refer the applicant to a HIMS AME. (Human Intervention Motivation Study.) HIMS is really about substance abuse, not ADHD, but it's doing double-duty now for things like ADHD and the four conditionally approvable SSRIs. ADHD can also trigger expensive neurocognitive tests ("CogScreen"). So ADHD really is in a separate class of conditions when it comes to getting a medical certificate.

Current use of stimulants is a denial no matter what.

As a flight instructor I think this is completely bonkers. The nature of ADHD is such that if it keeps a person from being able to fly safely, that will show up during training as a failure to meet performance standards. It's completely different from something like a heart condition, where a pilot will fly just fine until suddenly their heart stops. I've taught lots of folks with ADHD diagnoses; almost all of them did great, and the few that didn't were very obviously not able to handle the airplane.

Re: Me and ADHD

#248

Post by hntrader »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #93

A lot of comments here are warning about the addictive properties of stimulant medications. For folks without ADHD, you should know that stimulants, like Ritalin and Adderall, do not usually cause the same response as in non-ADHD people. I've spoken with many people on stimulants, and none of them enjoy taking the medication, beyond what it has done to improve their lives. Furthermore, most ADHD people develop tolera…

Second the comment on Ritalin among non-ADHD. Couldn't tell the difference between that and illicit speed on the street. Dry mouth, manic, euphoric.

Re: Me and ADHD

#249

Post by treeman79 »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #93

A lot of comments here are warning about the addictive properties of stimulant medications. For folks without ADHD, you should know that stimulants, like Ritalin and Adderall, do not usually cause the same response as in non-ADHD people. I've spoken with many people on stimulants, and none of them enjoy taking the medication, beyond what it has done to improve their lives. Furthermore, most ADHD people develop tolera…

Same experience. Per doctor, people with adhd don’t find adderall. addicting.

My experience aligns with this. When I take one I feel normal. Like how I should be in society. Unfortunately it causes me vascular inflammation as headaches.

So had to give it up. I use a non stimulant one now. Seems to be helping.

My daughter just started Vyvanse. Report from teachers is that her behavior is dramatically better.

Re: Me and ADHD

#250

Post by stared »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #93

A lot of comments here are warning about the addictive properties of stimulant medications. For folks without ADHD, you should know that stimulants, like Ritalin and Adderall, do not usually cause the same response as in non-ADHD people. I've spoken with many people on stimulants, and none of them enjoy taking the medication, beyond what it has done to improve their lives. Furthermore, most ADHD people develop tolera…

I have ADHD, and I use Modafinil or Armodafinil at low doses (50+50mg or 75mg, respectively).

It does not make "high" in any sense. It does not create dependency (unlike, say, coffee). If I don't take it (and I often don't), there are no negative effects, just a lack of the positive.

Metylofenidat helps me a bit, but it gives "deadline-like focus". Focus, but rush, with increased anxiety.

(Ar)modafinil gives sniper-like focus. Decreased anxiety and emotional reactiveness, while still maintaining full emotional clarity. Non-deadline flow.

The first time I took Modafinil, I didn't feel like "on drugs". I felt the opposite - for the first time distractions (like checking FB every a few minutes) were not dopamine hits I craved. I understood a lot about "other people" and things people kept telling me for two decades. It seems that being less distractible was an everyday experience.

The only downside I saw is that it needs to be taken well before bedtime (as in: morning, noon) and that it makes one way less social (immunity to jokes, increased sensory sensitivity, "OK, but what's your point" approach to conversations, etc).

Readings: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/02/16/nootropics-survey-resu... and https://www.gwern.net/Modafinil

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