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US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

torrentfreak.com

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Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#241

Post by wittyreference »

weare138 wrote: post #232
matheusmoreira wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Piracy destroys jobs, opportunity and initiative. So what? Let them be destroyed. I'd rather sacrifice some jobs than watch gigantic media conglomerates take over the computing industry and destroy our computing freedom with their DRM. There is no other way for them to enforce copyright in the 21st century so that's exactly what they'll try to do. They won't rest until every computer available to the public is lock…

So what? Let them be destroyed. I'd rather sacrifice some jobs than watch gigantic media conglomerates take over the computing industry and destroy our computing freedom with their DRM. Honestly I've never come across a study that says piracy even has a significant impact on the media industry, in fact some studies found the opposite. People that like something they pirated, which is not many people really, will usua…

I find those studies to be ... I'm not sure what the word is. Laboratory artifacts?

When a small portion of super-enthused users are doing the bulk of the pirating, piracy is going to manifest different effects than if it's massively widespread with a minimum barrier to entry.

It's not uncommon for there to eventually be a post in one of these threads to the effect of "there shouldn't be IP at all." I imagine as you move along the spectrum from the current state of torrenting, towards "no IP at all," the effects of piracy on media purchases are going to veer further and further from what current studies show.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#242

Post by sjy »

mrandish wrote: post #23

I'm concerned our justice systems is expending enormous resources investigating and prosecuting these cases as felony crimes on behalf of the MPAA and RIAA lobbies (which have a revolving door of former fed prosecutors as employees/lobbyists). The cases are more properly pursued in civil court where the pirates should be sued for the damages they cause (not agreeing with MPAA's damage assessment, that's for the judge…

> The cases are more properly pursued in civil court ... that is before we even get to the moral and ethical debate about the true damages from purely electronic, not-for-profit media piracy clubs

I don’t think it is possible to defer the moral and ethical question about the activities of these groups. Copyright holders have tried the civil option and it does not work. It is too expensive to pursue casual pirates, and too difficult to identify hardcore pirates without the investigative powers of a law enforcement agency. If you’re not okay with the criminal investigation, then I think you need to be okay with these piracy groups continuing to exist, rather than offering the civil courts as a moderate alternative.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#243

Post by KMag »

genericone wrote: post #102
matheusmoreira wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eh, artists have bills to pay. So? That doesn't change anything. The needs of creators cannot override our need for computing freedom. Enabling creators to pay their bills by charging money for data will have serious consequences for society in the long term. If they have bills to pay, they can find something else to do. Ideally, they should get paid for the act of creating rather than the final result. > it feels…

I downvoted you, but let me try to understand your worldview a bit here, tell me if you are in disagreement with these ideas I'm attributing to you based on what I'm reading: 1.) If it can be pirated, it should be pirate-able. Taken to the extreme, does this extend to the realm of people's appearance? With deepfakes I can 'pirate' someone's face and voice to be used for things they would never agree to. 2.) All distr…

  > 1.) If it can be pirated, it should be pirate-able.
  > Taken to the extreme, does this extend to the realm of people's appearance?
This would fall under trademark, not copyright. It's perfectly consistent to believe that the government shouldn't erect artificial barriers to the price of legitimate copies asymptotically approaching the cost of copying and distribution (near zero in the modern age) while still believing that the government should enforce some trademark restrictions to protect brands (including one's "personal brand").

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#244

Post by wittyreference »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #101
abakker wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd rather sacrifice someone else's jobs for your ideals? What a fair, well considered trade. The freedom you see to seem to be looking for here is freedom from consequences, not actual freedom. As always with the products other people are making, you have the choice to not buy them. That is actual freedom. Be careful making other's choices for them, it is closer to the governmental overreach you are against.

> As always with the products other people are making, you have the choice to not buy them. That's how it works in the material world. Data works differently. Data is infinite. You can have as much as you want. Why would anyone buy copies when making new ones is as easy as copy and paste? Only the original copy must be paid for. So there is in fact a third choice to buying or not buying data: obtain a copy from someo…

> That's how it works in the material world. Data works differently. Data is infinite.

Except you're not copying an RNG. You're copying someone's carefully crafted work, whose artificial scarcity is the mechanism by which they are compensated for that work. Unless you propose a mechanism for replacing that compensation, declaring "copying isn't theft" is just a fancier version of "I want my movies for free."

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#245

Post by jimnotgym »

Is this anything other than neo-colonialism? How can the power of the US copyright lobby extend quite so completely into Europe. Imagine Norway wanted a bunch of US kids arrested due to their, or their lobbyists, pet peeve.

I used to be passive about it now I am anti-copyright, that has been the effect of the overreach by the copyright lobby, they have hardened me against them.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#246

Post by [deleted] »

weare138 wrote: post #232
matheusmoreira wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Piracy destroys jobs, opportunity and initiative. So what? Let them be destroyed. I'd rather sacrifice some jobs than watch gigantic media conglomerates take over the computing industry and destroy our computing freedom with their DRM. There is no other way for them to enforce copyright in the 21st century so that's exactly what they'll try to do. They won't rest until every computer available to the public is lock…

So what? Let them be destroyed. I'd rather sacrifice some jobs than watch gigantic media conglomerates take over the computing industry and destroy our computing freedom with their DRM. Honestly I've never come across a study that says piracy even has a significant impact on the media industry, in fact some studies found the opposite. People that like something they pirated, which is not many people really, will usua…

[deleted]

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#247

Post by shard »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #67
xhkkffbf wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me say as an artist who has watched his hard work being openly pirated, I disagree. Piracy destroys jobs, opportunity and initiative. If these cretins want to distribute art for free, they can get off their butts and make their own. No one is stopping them. The world needs more voices, but piracy encourages these loafers to do nothing.

> Piracy destroys jobs, opportunity and initiative. So what? Let them be destroyed. I'd rather sacrifice some jobs than watch gigantic media conglomerates take over the computing industry and destroy our computing freedom with their DRM. There is no other way for them to enforce copyright in the 21st century so that's exactly what they'll try to do. They won't rest until every computer available to the public is lock…

Piracy extends beyond movies and music. It also affects games, which arguably is one driving force behind IAP, loot boxes, and pay-to-win, and I for one do not feel it is a good trend. To extend it further, IP also includes source code, which many of us base our livings off here in this forum, and accepting the theft of this IP would be devastating for our industry.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#248

Post by a1369209993 »

abakker wrote: post #88
matheusmoreira wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Piracy destroys jobs, opportunity and initiative. So what? Let them be destroyed. I'd rather sacrifice some jobs than watch gigantic media conglomerates take over the computing industry and destroy our computing freedom with their DRM. There is no other way for them to enforce copyright in the 21st century so that's exactly what they'll try to do. They won't rest until every computer available to the public is lock…

You'd rather sacrifice someone else's jobs for your ideals? What a fair, well considered trade. The freedom you see to seem to be looking for here is freedom from consequences, not actual freedom. As always with the products other people are making, you have the choice to not buy them. That is actual freedom. Be careful making other's choices for them, it is closer to the governmental overreach you are against.

So, by that logic I assume you're in favor of legalizing things like crack cocaine and methamphetamine? After all, if someone is a against such products, they have the choice to not buy them. (Not entirely rhetorical - I can imagine a internally consistent position with those principles, I just don't think you actually hold it.)

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#249

Post by extropy »

wittyreference wrote: post #244
matheusmoreira wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As always with the products other people are making, you have the choice to not buy them. That's how it works in the material world. Data works differently. Data is infinite. You can have as much as you want. Why would anyone buy copies when making new ones is as easy as copy and paste? Only the original copy must be paid for. So there is in fact a third choice to buying or not buying data: obtain a copy from someo…

> That's how it works in the material world. Data works differently. Data is infinite. Except you're not copying an RNG. You're copying someone's carefully crafted work, whose artificial scarcity is the mechanism by which they are compensated for that work. Unless you propose a mechanism for replacing that compensation, declaring "copying isn't theft" is just a fancier version of "I want my movies for free."

Other means of rewarding artists exist like Youtube memberships, Patreon, good old tours.

Copyright is very expensive scheme of redistributing funds for creative arts. And also has quite specific cultural consequences.

Some part of me keeps wondering if we could build a better society without copyright.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#250

Post by soulclap »

rolph wrote: post #159
loeg wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't cams totally dead? This was mostly DVD prerelease, which happens long after the theatrical release.

you dont see many cams around due to the enforcement against in theatre camming. even teleciene versions are few in number [a way of camming in your pirate loPHt]. it seems cams were a counting coup for scene credit and its now just looked at as dangerous. actual copying of prerelease screeners is in the mire as well. screeners basically were watermarked and sent out as promotionals so a theatre location could judge…

The Telecine way does not involve a cam. I think you mean Telesync.

Some more details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine_(copying).

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