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US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

torrentfreak.com

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Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#101
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Piracy destroys jobs, opportunity and initiative. So what? Let them be destroyed. I'd rather sacrifice some jobs than watch gigantic media conglomerates take over the computing industry and destroy our computing freedom with their DRM. There is no other way for them to enforce copyright in the 21st century so that's exactly what they'll try to do. They won't rest until every computer available to the public is lock…

You'd rather sacrifice someone else's jobs for your ideals? What a fair, well considered trade. The freedom you see to seem to be looking for here is freedom from consequences, not actual freedom. As always with the products other people are making, you have the choice to not buy them. That is actual freedom. Be careful making other's choices for them, it is closer to the governmental overreach you are against.

> As always with the products other people are making, you have the choice to not buy them.

That's how it works in the material world. Data works differently. Data is infinite. You can have as much as you want. Why would anyone buy copies when making new ones is as easy as copy and paste? Only the original copy must be paid for.

So there is in fact a third choice to buying or not buying data: obtain a copy from someone who already has it. Copyright law is all about getting rid of that choice. It's all about making sure that creators monopolize the means to make copies. Copyright is about the right to make copies.

Making copies of data is a fundamental computer operation. We can find this ability in functions such as memcpy, in programs such as cp and HTTP servers. Making copies is trivial. Anyone who owns a computer can do it. Without compromising our freedom to run these programs, copyright law is unenforceable.

So it's not just ideals. In order to actually enforce copyright law, computers must be made to answer to the copyright industry instead of users. As a computer user and programmer, that's not the future I want.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#102
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, artists have bills to pay. I try to buy e-books to support my favorite sci-fi authors, but it feels a bit silly that downloading the epub from libgen is literally less hassle than buying it on Google Play.

> Eh, artists have bills to pay. So? That doesn't change anything. The needs of creators cannot override our need for computing freedom. Enabling creators to pay their bills by charging money for data will have serious consequences for society in the long term. If they have bills to pay, they can find something else to do. Ideally, they should get paid for the act of creating rather than the final result. > it feels…

I downvoted you, but let me try to understand your worldview a bit here, tell me if you are in disagreement with these ideas I'm attributing to you based on what I'm reading:

1.) If it can be pirated, it should be pirate-able.

Taken to the extreme, does this extend to the realm of people's appearance? With deepfakes I can 'pirate' someone's face and voice to be used for things they would never agree to.

2.) All distribution mediums are middle-men between a creator and a consumer. Whoever is making money as a middle-man is in the wrong. The person making the least money as a middle-man is the least-wrong.

Piracy services only make money on selling ads and file-download/storage subscriptions, and not on a per-consumption basis. They make the least profit from the middle-manning, so pirating services are the least wrong middle-men.

3.) Creators don't need monetary/financial/fame incentives, they should only create for the act of creation-itself.

Consumers will naturally request and "commission" more work from the creator if their work is good.

I know I'm taking it a bit far on the first one, but I can't help but think that you might agree based on reading your comments.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me say as an artist who has watched his hard work being openly pirated, I disagree. Piracy destroys jobs, opportunity and initiative. If these cretins want to distribute art for free, they can get off their butts and make their own. No one is stopping them. The world needs more voices, but piracy encourages these loafers to do nothing.

I'm not sure this is true on a grand scale. It's been widely recognized that the majority of piracy is committed by people who would not spend the money on the item anyway, or in cases where it is actually difficult to buy the item. There's a reason cheap & easy access to media (streaming) has reduced piracy. People are willing to pay for something if it has value, is offered at a reasonable price and is easy to purc…

> It's been widely recognized that the majority of piracy is committed by people who would not spend the money on the item anyway

What about other items?

E.g., someone who pirates a graphics editing program that costs several hundred dollars indeed might not have purchased it if piracy had not been available, so arguably that piracy did not cost that software maker a sale.

But if piracy had not been an option, would they have just given up on doing their graphics editing? Or would they have looked around for something else instead? Maybe they would have bought Pixelmator Pro, for example, which is under $30, and can do a lot of things that people pirate the more expensive programs for.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eh, artists have bills to pay. So? That doesn't change anything. The needs of creators cannot override our need for computing freedom. Enabling creators to pay their bills by charging money for data will have serious consequences for society in the long term. If they have bills to pay, they can find something else to do. Ideally, they should get paid for the act of creating rather than the final result. > it feels…

>Enabling creators to pay their bills by charging money for data will have serious consequences for society in the long term. Grr, the idea of a society where creators get paid a fair amount for their content just makes me so mad. Won't anyone think of the pirates?!

I have absolutely zero problem with creators who make a Patreon and get paid for their work through patronage. That would work even without copyright. The problem is copyright, not creators getting paid.

In order for creators to get paid via the copyright system, artificial scarcity of data is needed. In order to create artificial scarcity, people's computers must be compromised with DRM so that they won't be able to make and distribute unauthorized copies of works. Allowing anyone to compromise and own our computers by design and for any reason is a really bad idea and will probably lead to total worldwide surveillance.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#105
post #57
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dotcom's company's whole purpose was to make money facilitating movie piracy, under the guise of being an innocent file storage and sharing company. Their internal processes and procedures were designed to make it appear that they took down pirated material when informed of its existence while actually making sure it was still there and accessible via other links that the copyright owner had not yet discovered. They…

>Go find the court papers for the indictment. No i dont think i will. onus probandi, you'll need to cite your sources if you want anyone to take this seriously im afraid. Dotcom was raided in new zealand with a guns out swat style team of tactical commandos and helicopters for what amounted to a civil court issue in his own county. his servers were illegally seized, his assets frozen, and then he was railroaded to th…

> and then he was railroaded to the US

I agree that the treatment of Dotcom by the US is, essentially, legalized international extortion and the NZ government should have put a stop on it a long time ago... but he is still in NZ.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me say as an artist who has watched his hard work being openly pirated, I disagree. Piracy destroys jobs, opportunity and initiative. If these cretins want to distribute art for free, they can get off their butts and make their own. No one is stopping them. The world needs more voices, but piracy encourages these loafers to do nothing.

I'm not sure this is true on a grand scale. It's been widely recognized that the majority of piracy is committed by people who would not spend the money on the item anyway, or in cases where it is actually difficult to buy the item. There's a reason cheap & easy access to media (streaming) has reduced piracy. People are willing to pay for something if it has value, is offered at a reasonable price and is easy to purc…

Industry groups like RIAA obviously massively overstate their case when they claim every pirated mp3 is a lost sale, but Napster et al. did cost the music industry dearly.

If you look at a graph of music sales over time, you can see that the 1990s were a great time for the music business.[1] CDs brought in increasing revenue until the early 2000s, when they precipitously declined. Legal downloads did not make up for the decline in CD sales. Streaming eventually halted the decline, but revenue only stabilized around 2010-2015. In other words, the music industry had a really tough decade.

Of course, the music industry also has itself to blame. CDs were expensive, and who wants to pay $20 for an album that only has one song worth listening to? The industry only embraced downloads and streaming once they had no other choice.

There's a good documentary on this: System Shock.[2]

1. https://blogs.sas.com/content/graphicallyspeaking/files/2019...

2. https://vimeo.com/336427561

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#107
post #77
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, artists have bills to pay. I try to buy e-books to support my favorite sci-fi authors, but it feels a bit silly that downloading the epub from libgen is literally less hassle than buying it on Google Play.

And this is one of the key selling points of piracy - having the product you want easily available while the other options (physical disk, download) may not be available in your region.

Yeah, no.

When I was a teen and wanted pirated games I had to put a lot of time into it (downloading/getting the CD's) then hunt for working cracks and then later deal with the consequences of installing cracks. My time was free but as an adult now I could never justify spending evenings to make pirated games work.

Today's piracy is way more easier than piracy 15 or 25 years ago.

The key selling point of piracy is that it's free.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#108
post #29

I'm concerned our justice systems is expending enormous resources investigating and prosecuting these cases as felony crimes on behalf of the MPAA and RIAA lobbies (which have a revolving door of former fed prosecutors as employees/lobbyists). The cases are more properly pursued in civil court where the pirates should be sued for the damages they cause (not agreeing with MPAA's damage assessment, that's for the judge…

I’m not disagreeing in principle, but there are criminal statutes on the books put there by Congress for copyright infringement, and it is the Federal government’s job to enforce these laws.

I don't think New Zealand has a "Congress"?

You're not trying to say USA has the right to make laws in other countries are you?

I mean I know USA does this, but it seems indefensible?

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#109
post #57
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dotcom's company's whole purpose was to make money facilitating movie piracy, under the guise of being an innocent file storage and sharing company. Their internal processes and procedures were designed to make it appear that they took down pirated material when informed of its existence while actually making sure it was still there and accessible via other links that the copyright owner had not yet discovered. They…

>Go find the court papers for the indictment. No i dont think i will. onus probandi, you'll need to cite your sources if you want anyone to take this seriously im afraid. Dotcom was raided in new zealand with a guns out swat style team of tactical commandos and helicopters for what amounted to a civil court issue in his own county. his servers were illegally seized, his assets frozen, and then he was railroaded to th…

The full story, not without irony, is that the mansion Dotcom was renting was then purchased by a family whose entire business fortune evolved from the facilitating the mass production of plastic children's toys based on US movie IP.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing in favor of piracy, but isn't GPL anti copyright (copyleft)

Fair question. =) No, it's not. "Copyleft licenses exist within the legal structure of copyrights. Despite what the name implies, copyleft isn't about abolishing copyrights. Rather, copyleft licenses are a subset of copyright licenses, and the goal is to restore freedom to users." https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/copyleft-copyright-key-concept...

You are right, thanks for clarifying.

I asked that question as the GP made the case that breaking GPL is equivalent to pirating (breaking any other copyright). But GPL ensures a resource is always shareable and anyone who tries to break it would be limiting shareability of the resource, essentially it would be opposite of piracy.

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