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Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

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Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#241

Post by richrichardsson »

renaudg wrote: post #238
richrichardsson wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> extremely small teams Did you just wilfully ignore that part because it doesn't fit with your diatribe? Extremely small teams = 1 or 2 developers, that still have to be creating new software if they want income. Having to divert their energy to fixing something that Apple decided to break hurts their bottom line. Regardless of if you think your position is correct, pro-audio users are starting to get tired of Apple…

I didn't ignore it, I specifically added "while most indie devs get to work and release steady updates over the summer" Each year between June-September, I see release notes for indie software like CleanMyMac, Gemini, Hazel... with fixes and improvements for the upcoming macOS. They seem to welcome new stuff with a sense of excitement and eagerness. In the audio world, there is an attitude of conservatism and an unto…

The differences are:

- those small developers only have 1 or 2 products to update

- audio devs generally have a larger set of products

- audio devs need to keep creating new stuff, it's kind of hard to just rest on your laurels (with some exceptions) in that space

I see it from both sides of the coin: as a user it annoys me that every year my inbox gets crushed under the weight of "DON'T UPGRADE!!!1!" mail outs, and as a solo developer it's hard to update all my products AND find time to create something new. I'd rather not be one of the developers who just sunsets products because they can't be bothered to continue updating them.

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#242

Post by dijksterhuis »

qmmmur wrote: post #148
dijksterhuis wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just reminded me about Reascripts. Now I know what I'm spending the rest of my lockdown doing.

If you're interested I have a load of scripts that access some command-line audio processing algorithms (non-negative matrix factorisation, harmonic percussive source separation) to do batch processing inside REAPER. https://github.com/jamesb93/reacoma

Amazing. Cheers dude.

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#243

Post by qmmmur »

rogerclark wrote: post #235
basisword wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I've been in a lot of studios and never seen Reaper used once. It's all Pro Tools and a surprising amount of Cubase. This is very much the same as "if you want to get serious about coding use VIM not VSCode".

this is highly dependent on region, genre and demographics. every scene has their own tools. in the EDM scene, Pro Tools is regarded as a joke -- absolutely no one uses it, and the impression is that it's for old and out-of-touch people. I know a team producing music for several very well-known television series entirely using Reaper

In the BBC remote vans they run REAPER alongside some other proprietary stuff.

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#244

Post by sjwright »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #240
sjwright wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was responding to you saying: > And that is why I will never go back to Mac. It seems like you've changed your perspective.

I will never "voluntarily" go back to mac because I think Apple does actively try and lock people into the ecosystem. Update To clarify: because I don't want to pay a premium for a computer where I am running tools that work well or better on other machines. Makes sense to me, but.. I don't know, maybe its not logical. I ran Macs as my primary machine for 10 years. Now I have a different perspective and don't want to…

The premium cost part is interesting. When my labour might be worth something in excess of $100k per year to the right corporation, for me to spend an extra $300 per year* on whatever I consider to be higher quality or even just preferred tools is for me the height of triviality.

* Remember that most people only replace their workstations every 3-4 years. So I'm assuming that the Mac could have an "Apple Tax" of over $1,000. Of course most of their machines are a lot more competitively priced than that.

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#245

Post by whywhywhywhy »

klodolph wrote: post #119
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the resource allocated to Logic is so small ( by today's Apple standard ) none of the management bother about it I'm not really buying that because they've killed plenty of other things which would also be tiny investments in the grand scheme of Apple. Aperture, Shake and Motion come to mind. Find it very strange they updated it at this point and really starting to wonder if the reason it still exists isn't somethin…

I don't think any of those pieces of software were in a position like Logic. Audio is a bit of a different beast. You swap out Final Cut with DaVinci Resolve or Adobe Premiere and you're going to have to relearn workflows and keyboard shortcuts, but it's not going to be radically different. You still start by creating audio and video first, and then cutting it all up and putting it back together in your video editing…

>It's like a musical instrument, in the sense that it has unique sounds and textures that you can get used to.

All creative software that outputs the level of complexity of a song, video or image is like this. Each has their own algorithms and quirks that end up in the final work in some way. There is nothing uniquely romantic about Logic vs other creative tools.

Plenty of us start the project off right there in the software the project is finished in.

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#246

Post by klodolph »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #245
klodolph wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think any of those pieces of software were in a position like Logic. Audio is a bit of a different beast. You swap out Final Cut with DaVinci Resolve or Adobe Premiere and you're going to have to relearn workflows and keyboard shortcuts, but it's not going to be radically different. You still start by creating audio and video first, and then cutting it all up and putting it back together in your video editing…

>It's like a musical instrument, in the sense that it has unique sounds and textures that you can get used to. All creative software that outputs the level of complexity of a song, video or image is like this. Each has their own algorithms and quirks that end up in the final work in some way. There is nothing uniquely romantic about Logic vs other creative tools. Plenty of us start the project off right there in the…

> All creative software that outputs the level of complexity of a song, video or image is like this. Each has their own algorithms and quirks that end up in the final work in some way. There is nothing uniquely romantic about Logic vs other creative tools.

This has nothing to do with algorithms or quirks. This is about different sounds, the different UX for performance, and the different tools for creating sounds. Whether or not you care about this depends on how you use the software, but many people actually do care about this.

You can, of course, use Logic as a simple DAW to record a song that’s already been written. Write your song, come into the studio, fire up Logic and hit record. It’s more or less interchangeable with other respectable DAWs like Reaper when you use it like this. You might notice some differences between the EQ, compressors, reverb, or other plugins. Most people don’t care.

But Logic also comes with a huge library of sounds and presents a particular interface for sound design and performance that isn’t interchangeable with other DAWs. Compare it to something like Ableton or Reason and you’ll get the picture that different people are using their DAWs in radically different ways at the songwriting stage.

> Plenty of us start the project off right there in the software the project is finished in.

Not for Aperture, Final Cut, Shake, or Motion. At least, not in general. Those are the pieces of software I’m talking obut.

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#247

Post by jay_kyburz »

sjwright wrote: post #244
jay_kyburz wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will never "voluntarily" go back to mac because I think Apple does actively try and lock people into the ecosystem. Update To clarify: because I don't want to pay a premium for a computer where I am running tools that work well or better on other machines. Makes sense to me, but.. I don't know, maybe its not logical. I ran Macs as my primary machine for 10 years. Now I have a different perspective and don't want to…

The premium cost part is interesting. When my labour might be worth something in excess of $100k per year to the right corporation, for me to spend an extra $300 per year* on whatever I consider to be higher quality or even just preferred tools is for me the height of triviality. * Remember that most people only replace their workstations every 3-4 years. So I'm assuming that the Mac could have an "Apple Tax" of over…

Ahh see, for me the tools are _not_ preferred. (as discussed above I prefer to invest time learning portable tools) and I don't consider the quality to be better, so its just burning $300. I'd rather give it to my kids as pocket money. Or give it to a homeless person. Or literately do anything with it other than give it to Apple.

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#248

Post by FriendlyNormie »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #72
ksec wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to ask the same question and so far none of the answer seems convincing to me. It would have made a little more sense if they had released this update as Logic Pro 11 and charges some upgrade fees. Instead it is free. To put it into perspective, Logic Pro X user has been getting free update for nearly 7 years running! I think one possible reason / theory is that the resource allocated to Logic is so small (…

>the resource allocated to Logic is so small ( by today's Apple standard ) none of the management bother about it I'm not really buying that because they've killed plenty of other things which would also be tiny investments in the grand scheme of Apple. Aperture, Shake and Motion come to mind. Find it very strange they updated it at this point and really starting to wonder if the reason it still exists isn't somethin…

No post body was provided.

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#249

Post by thirdsun »

crazygringo wrote: post #16
jasode wrote: post #2

I own Apple Logic and thus I'm grateful for the continuous updates. On the other hand, I'm mystified why Apple continues its investment in this audio program. Yes, when Steve Jobs bought Logic from Emagic in 2002, it made strategic sense to fortify Apple's "software portfolio" to make Mac hardware more attractive. But that was before the surprising massive success of iPhones in 2007. Now, it seems like sales of Logic…

To be more specific, and in response to your reply: Together with Final Cut Pro, Apple wants to have Mac-only exclusive software that is aimed specifically at cool creative professionals to build up the image that trendy creatives use Macs (and you therefore have no choice but to use a Mac, otherwise you won't have the software you need). Aperture couldn't really compete with Adobe's whole workflow (since Apple didn'…

Furthermore DAW are very, very loyal and hesitant to jump ship. I'd bet that for many Logic users being able to keep using their DAW of choice is reason enough to never even consider a diffeent OS / platform.

On a sidenote it has to be mentioned that Logic is just incredible value. I'm an Ableton Live user myself and love it, but the amount of content and the quality of the instruments/effects/tools you get with Logic for such a reasonable price without being expected to pay for an update is unmatched among competing DAWs.

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#250

Post by yoctoyotta »

unixhero wrote: post #123
robertoandred wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever actually compared audio capabilities of Windows with macOS? (Or Android with iOS?) There's more to a computer than the clock speed of its processor.

You have the stage, why won't you expand on your point a little.

If I may jump in: One of the more critical issues with real-time audio processing on CPUs (as opposed to DSPs) is latency. And Core Audio in both, MacOS and iOS, is particularly good in this regard compared to the equivalent structures in Windows and Android (and probably also Linux).

It's an older paper, but the general direction still holds up today:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267780532_Audio_lat...

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