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Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

nytimes.com

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Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#241

Post by m463 »

econcon wrote: post #125
cs702 wrote: post #80

When you buy a physical object, such as a home, a car, a shirt, or a smartphone, shouldn't you be be able to repair it, modify it however you want, use it for different purposes, loan it to friends, sell it to others, and so on -- you know, all the rights and benefits associated with the concept of private ownership ? And when you buy a software object, shouldn't you have the same rights and benefits?

I think if this law is passed, companies will start subscription service where you'll be renting phones instead of owning then. Then onus and exclusive right for repair/replacement will stay with the smartphone company.

My u-verse dsl modem, owned by AT&T and rented to me, got an update pushed to it recently with lots of telemetry. no recourse. Comcast does similar things with their cable modems, such as opening them up as semi-public access points.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#242

Post by m463 »

bluGill wrote: post #132
cs702 wrote: post #80

When you buy a physical object, such as a home, a car, a shirt, or a smartphone, shouldn't you be be able to repair it, modify it however you want, use it for different purposes, loan it to friends, sell it to others, and so on -- you know, all the rights and benefits associated with the concept of private ownership ? And when you buy a software object, shouldn't you have the same rights and benefits?

I own my home, but I'm not allowed to pour oil on the ground even though it would only destroy my own grass. I own my car, but I'm not allowed to remove the headlights and drive at night. Exactly where we place the limits is up for debate, but I think I conclusively proved to everybody reading this that there need to be limits the only question is where.

A more compelling argument might be -- what things are you not permitted to do to your home or car because of a private entity such as the manufacturer.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#243

Post by m463 »

ajayyy wrote: post #140
bluGill wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own my home, but I'm not allowed to pour oil on the ground even though it would only destroy my own grass. I own my car, but I'm not allowed to remove the headlights and drive at night. Exactly where we place the limits is up for debate, but I think I conclusively proved to everybody reading this that there need to be limits the only question is where.

You are allowed to remove the headlights, you just can't drive it on public roads

likely at night.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#244

Post by hermitdev »

yohannparis wrote: post #60
lnsru wrote: post #37

That will end in another monstrosity like WEEE making entry for hardware startups harder and harder: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_Electrical_and_Electro... Only big players with dedicated departments will comply easily. And about right to repair I have bad experience: broken cable is enough for lots of buyers to throw away electronic appliances. Let’s be honest: majority of users will cause more harm than do…

If you read more into the law, they want to have parts and documentation available to professionals mostly. The consumer might still get them, but the goal is not to be user-friendly. Like with your car, sure I can change my fuel pump, but most people will go their mechanic, and their mechanic can buy parts from the manufacturer. The law is promoting this kind of service. Right now if your TV has a broken part, it mi…

I just bought a new TV after my previous one crapped out. It was exhibiting the exact same symptoms when it was repaired under warranty a few years back. Decided it would be cheaper in the long run to buy a new TV, get a new warranty than to spend $800 on parts and labor to repair. That was my 2nd Samsung in a row to die a few years after a warranty repair. Avoiding Samsung TVs for a long while.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#245

Post by justinclift »

ska wrote: post #196
justinclift wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> notice how they're from a bygone era where cars where fixed in the driveway. that age has passed Do you feel that age has passed because manufacturers now block people having the info needed for repair, or are you meaning the complexity of cars has increased?

Honestly, probably a bit of both.

Ok then. :)

Perhaps the age of fixing cars in the driveway may return, if manufacturers aren't able to block the info needed.

At present, more technically advanced people seem to piece together their own CANbus diagnostic tools. But off the shelf products that work for "every model" should be practical if this legislation works.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#246

Post by m463 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #104
jeremyjh wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Licensing is not the same as purchasing. I don’t think banning the concept of licensing would be helpful.

Withing the next 10-15 years 95% of household appliances and furniture will have a chip in them, to enable some type of IoT functionality. All of them will be licensed, almost abolishing private ownership. If we idly accept licensing of everything, we will enjoy what will be basically serfdom. People that were writing these laws never imagined they would prevent you from repairing a cat-feeder or a lighting system. T…

I think open source software and possibly hardware as CNC/3D printing/etc form the checks and balances against this.

It's sort of unfortunate. I can see having an idea, and wanting to start a business, but not have people copy it wholesale. But I can also see that people who do start companies go the full-tyranny route - closed source, phone app only, invasive data collection, until purchasing something is a compromise on every level.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#247

Post by OJFord »

harrier wrote: post #212
OJFord wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't heard 'feature phones' since I used to read consumer electronics news sites (like Engadget, then This is my Next/The Verge) years ago. I don't think anyone else uses the term; to the layman, they're 'dumb phones', to contrast with 'smart' (although increasinly 'smart phones' are just 'phones'). Or since those are American sites, perhaps it's actually a variation of regional colloquialisms.

Feature phones have capabilities beyond just making calls/sms but less capabilities than smart phones.

Yes, I understand it, I'm just saying I haven't heard anyone other than a consumer electronics journalist use the term. Everyone says 'dumb phone' (to mean the same thing) if the distinction is important.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#248

Post by hermitdev »

Shivetya wrote: post #71

Depending on how this is handled it could backfire and we end up with more pollution as people discard used parts. For some items, like adding easily swap of batteries may open the devices to easier contamination. However if right to repair is contained to authorized repair centers; which is currently how warranties are preserved in many countries; then it might still pass provided someone with the right tools can do…

Of course, one needs to responsibly dispose of discard components. Electrical recycling is a far different story than plastic recycling. A lot of electronics have rare/expensive components that are worth recovering like gold and rare earth's.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#249

Post by notriddle »

Buttons840 wrote: post #138
bluGill wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own my home, but I'm not allowed to pour oil on the ground even though it would only destroy my own grass. I own my car, but I'm not allowed to remove the headlights and drive at night. Exactly where we place the limits is up for debate, but I think I conclusively proved to everybody reading this that there need to be limits the only question is where.

It would be more accurately stated: I am allowed to remove my headlights, but I'm not allowed to drive on the roads if I have removed my headlights. The restriction is on roads.

Okay, how about this one?

I own my home, but I'm not allowed to replace the GFCI outlets in my bathroom with non-GFCI outlets.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#250

Post by ska »

justinclift wrote: post #245
ska wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, probably a bit of both.

Ok then. :) Perhaps the age of fixing cars in the driveway may return, if manufacturers aren't able to block the info needed. At present, more technically advanced people seem to piece together their own CANbus diagnostic tools. But off the shelf products that work for "every model" should be practical if this legislation works.

Absolutely better regs around access to diagnostics (e.g. CAN bus as you mention) is part of the story. But for the bigger internal stuff, tolerances are a lot tighter than they were 20 years ago, which can make it hard to do a good job of in your driveway. Certainly some superficial repairs are made much harder than they should be, but a lot of that is more modular too so you aren't saving a ton doing it at home. At least you can find out which control unit should be replaced if you can read the diagnostics properly :)
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