Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

cleantechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 348 posts

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#241

Post by sagarm »

callalex wrote: post #231
natch wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have two and live in an apartment. The problem is not that insurmountable when there are chargers at work and Superchargers. At work, they are expanding the number of chargers year after year. Same with Superchargers. I am always able to charge well beyond my commute miles at work, for free. I'm not saying it's a non-issue, but it is possible for a lot of people, and it is getting better, even for people who curre…

What happens when you fall ill for a week and don’t go to work? Do you trade cars with your partner for alternate day charging?

An ICE vehicle always requires going to a specific place to fuel up.

For many people, an electric vehicle can be fueled at work or home eliminating most fueling stops. A few exceptions are not a deal breaker.

If you're just looking for excuses to say no, of course, just stick with the ICE for now.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#242

Post by amelius »

kjksf wrote: post #225
steelframe wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> considering both the fire-safety Some people may jump on you about the fire-safety of Tesla cars (or BEVs in general), but I want to get ahead of that with a link to the Highway Loss Data Institute's December 2018 report for 2016-2018 motor vehicles, where the Tesla Model X had a RCF (Relative Claim Frequency) of 192, the second-worse score for vehicles in its class, and the Tesla Model S had a RCF of 140, the wors…

There's lies, damn lies and statistics. Yes, Model X (at 192) is second highest in its class. It's also better than any passenger car in top 10 (lowest at 204) and better than any pickup truck in top 10 (lowest at 205). So if we care about fire safety, we should replace every passenger car and pick up with the "terrible" Model X. Also worth noting that, to my knowledge, there wasn't a single non-crash fire in Model 3…

Ok but what happens if the car parked next to the tesla catches fire?

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#243

Post by greglindahl »

jfk13 wrote: post #208
npo9 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on what price you pay for Electricity, but paying for the electricity is more than half as cheap as paying for gas. Plus in the US there are so many free chargers, I just charge my car at the office.

I have a suspicion that as electric cars become more common, free chargers will become less so. Providing free chargers (i.e. subsidizing people's driving expenses) may be great PR for businesses, municipalities, etc., as long as there are relatively few people using them, but will not be sustainable as demand increases. And as more people shift from ICE-powered vehicles to electric ones, it seems likely that some of…

Plenty of places already charge an equivalent to gas taxes for electric vehicles. In my US state, it's paid with your yearly registration.

My city initially gave away free charging to lower air pollution, which wasn't on your list of reasons. 6 years after that start, they've started charging.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#244

Post by jhayward »

omnimus wrote: post #67
AnonymousPlanet wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is a very densely populated country (go take a look at map). Even a relatively minor accident at a nuclear facility would trigger a huge evacuation (I've seen the disaster control plans), causing major economic harm. Germany also does not have any viable means to store nuclear waste responsibly. Currently, nuclear does not look like the sane option for Germany.

They suddenly in few years closed all nuclear which imcreased all need for coal. Its dirty decision 2038 is not enough. If they closed all coal and wait with nuclear to 2038 that would make sense. Coal barons need to sell that stuff quicky before it looses value. I am sure they will somehow artificilially increase cost of coal energy in upcoming years.

> They suddenly in few years closed all nuclear which imcreased all need for coal.

Since the decision to close nuclear plants was taken the proportion of German electrical generation supplied by coal has been cut in half. So, no, it didn't increase demand for coal.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#245

Post by merpnderp »

ramidarigaz wrote: post #199
free652 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, so the cost of electricity is 25c/kWh (NYC). 3 miles per kWh or 0.08 per mile (not including charging efficiency). City: 20 miles per gallon ($2.75/gal) or 0.13 per mile Highway: 30mpg or 0.09c. Hybrid: 40mpg or 0.07c. Tesla is too expensive for a very little benefit, smaller EVs have tiny range. Hybrids would be cheaper than a Tesla.

I had no idea electricity was so expensive in NYC. Also, I think 3 miles per kWh is a bit pessimistic. Lifetime average for my Model 3 is 260 Wh/mi, which works out to 3.8 mi/kWh. Given Colorado's ~$0.11/kWh, it all works out to just under $0.03/mi which looks a lot more favorable against the other options. It's still a heckin' expensive car though.

I pay the same rate, but if I switched to peak charging rates, I can pay only $.025/kWh for most of the day. And then $.25/kWh during a few peak hours. Making a Tesla a lot cheaper to drive.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#246

Post by markvdb »

freehunter wrote: post #239
lettergram wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently average price per gallon in Norway is $7.06[1]. Today, I paid $2.42 for gas in rural Illinois. So 3x, but I also pay less for electricity in general, so idk if it pays off. I probably spend around $1500/year on gas with my 17-25mpg Jeep. Honestly, Tesla really still can’t compete with the fact I have to haul stuff and drive a few hundred miles. so not an option for me anyway. [1] https://www.globalpetrolpr…

It's amazing to me as an American how little need Europeans have for large American-style vehicles. I see Audi station wagons in Switzerland pulling horse trailers (with horses in them), doing 100mph on the freeway. In the US, anyone who pulls a horse trailer once a year would have a dualie diesel HD3500 with exhaust stacks, as their daily driver.

Warning: somewhat off topic comment to follow.

I've noticed reverse anecdotal evidence when I saw cars with ridiculous 6.5l engines in the US and Canada. It's amazing to me with my western European background how energy inefficient the US and Canada are per USD of GDP.[0][1]

It must be so much harder as an individual to make energy saving choices in an environment where those are an afterthought.

[0] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.KD.GD [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_ratio_of_...

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#247

Post by merpnderp »

ericd wrote: post #204
Someone wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

”Very little efficiency is lost in transmission cables and in the electric motor” It’s not that clear-cut. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_energy_efficiency : ”Taking the conversion factor of 2.58 in France into account (see Embodied energy#Electricity), we would find an efficiency of about 0.5/2.58 or 19 %, which corresponds to the order of magnitude of the balance of the combustion vehicles, according to…

The French electric grid is predominantly nuclear, so whatever the transmission losses, the EV will be near zero CO2 output.

Nuclear is how you spell winning in French. Clean green limitless power.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#248

Post by ZeroGravitas »

xyzzyz wrote: post #150
socialdemocrat wrote: post #145

Tesla is almost 25% of the sales in Norway. Counting Tesla's on the road has started to become a bit silly. Just walking up to my local grocery story in Oslo, I may see 6-7 Tesla's on that short walk. I only realize how abnormal that is when it is when I travel abroad. Spent several days in London and didn't see a single Tesla. Spent a week in Spain and didn't even see an electric car at all. In Norway there are Leaf…

That’s no surprise, since Norwegian government heavily penalizes ICE vehicles, and advantages the electric cars. No VAT, no CO2 tax, and lots of other incentives are involved. If your goal is to upgrade your country’s vehicle fleet to electric, then Norway is a good example that with enough government spending it can happen. Don’t mistake it for “normal people jumping onboard electric train”, though, they are jumping…

How much do they offer?

I've seen estimates that over its lifetime an EV purchased in America saves society about $20,000. Though at least one component of that will be higher in Norway as their grid is so clean that it'll be even better on health impacts.

I'm not sure that a society continuously voting for sane, reality-based economic policies over a few decades is different from "normal people jumping on board the electric train" if that's where they end up. Who else should they "blame" for this sensible and rational policy if not themselves?

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#249

Post by ecpottinger »

chrisseaton wrote: post #193
AnonymousPlanet wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An electrical car produces almost as much fine dust particles as an internal combustion engine. This is utter nonsense. Electric vehicles have no direct emissions, including no direct emissions of fine dust. You are confusing this with emissions during production. My point is about emissions at the location of a car's use. > The CO2 and NOx combustion engines produces are not that dangerous to our health. If this w…

> This is utter nonsense. Electric vehicles have no direct emissions, including no direct emissions of fine dust. Have you ever changed a tire on Tesla because it was worn down? Where do you think the rubber in the old tire went when it was worn down? Emitted into the environment, that’s where.

Have you measure the gas you burnt between changing those tires. You burnt and put in the air hundreds of times the weight of those tires in gases.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#250

Post by chrisseaton »

ecpottinger wrote: post #249
chrisseaton wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is utter nonsense. Electric vehicles have no direct emissions, including no direct emissions of fine dust. Have you ever changed a tire on Tesla because it was worn down? Where do you think the rubber in the old tire went when it was worn down? Emitted into the environment, that’s where.

Have you measure the gas you burnt between changing those tires. You burnt and put in the air hundreds of times the weight of those tires in gases.

You’re saying the petrol emissions are worse than other emissions. But the comment I was replying to said there were no other emissions at all.
Post reply on HN