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The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

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Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#241

Post by mcrae »

wpdev_63 wrote: post #239

Huawei is a massive company with a large lineup of affordable Android phones. Why can't they just fork Android just like Amazon and Microsoft? I guess they would have to come up with alternative to google play marketplace, gmaps, gmail, etc. but it's not really a big deal with the resources they have. Not to mention that the open source equivalent of these apps are serviceable.

Don't think it is that simple for a couple of reasons:

1) Without GMS, developers will need to fork their apps and reimplement everything they use Play services for today. That's non-trvial and I suspect a substantial number of developers would not be willing to do this.

2) Even if Huawei developed their own app store, IAP framework, etc, as I understand it the order in the US prevents Huawei from entering into any new business with US companies without a license. So, does that mean that FB, Twitter, et all would be prohibited from listing their apps? I believe so.

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#242

Post by 121789 »

wpdev_63 wrote: post #239

Huawei is a massive company with a large lineup of affordable Android phones. Why can't they just fork Android just like Amazon and Microsoft? I guess they would have to come up with alternative to google play marketplace, gmaps, gmail, etc. but it's not really a big deal with the resources they have. Not to mention that the open source equivalent of these apps are serviceable.

It's a huge deal because consumers will have a host of other Android alternatives in competitors where they won't have to deal with "serviceable" open source alternatives.

Additionally, Huawei has has done so well because the OS and consumer experience is generally the same across Android, so consumers choose based on hardware. Now Huawei will have to compete not only in hardware (their main advantage), but also in software.

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#243

Post by jimclegg »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #192
mcphage wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If those companies were interested in investing the billions required for such a venture, they wouldn’t have gotten into this situation in the first place.

I don't think it's that. After network effects kick in, the chances for creating a viable OS are extremely slim. They could have invested three times what Google has invested in Android and still fail.

Almost 3 billion people will be online in India and China alone, and they aren't strongly interested in sharing domestic private data with foreign entities (Facebook, Google, Apple).

Creating another OS seems like an inevitability.

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#244

Post by pas »

rchaud wrote: post #226
dindresto wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Windows Phone has shown that "Google/Alphabet/YT would make apps for that platform too" is far from true.

The issue with Windows Phone was that it was a Microsoft venture, and Google was already paying MS around $5 in license fees for every activated Android device [0]. They weren't in any hurry to make WP more competitive by offering a Youtube app. I had a WP device in 2011, and there were third party apps (MetroTube I think) that were like Newpipe in that you could watching and download YT videos for offline viewing. N…

Because platforms were not lucrative for G compared to how big of a barrier to entry the lack of YT meant for those platforms.

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#245

Post by [deleted] »

harryf wrote: post #34
Roritharr wrote: post #9

Google invested Billions into Android. Samsung tried to hedge for this by building Tizen(Bada) and realized how much needed to be invested to get an Android competitor going, so they kept the development going, but focused for their Smartwatches, as this would have to be a "if the worst happens" plan, not something that could be a profitable venture. LG has the Palm/HP borne WebOS for their TVs, i suspect with a simi…

It’s possible that Google cutting off Huawei will actually backfire, because it makes having a viable alternative to Android a MUST HAVE instead of just NICE TO HAVE. Perhaps it’s possible to resurrect Blackberry 10 ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_10 ) for example, which seemed to be an impressive piece of engineering that got trampled by Blackberrys failing business. I played with a demo once that could…

[deleted]

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#246

Post by wpdev_63 »

mcrae wrote: post #241
wpdev_63 wrote: post #239

Huawei is a massive company with a large lineup of affordable Android phones. Why can't they just fork Android just like Amazon and Microsoft? I guess they would have to come up with alternative to google play marketplace, gmaps, gmail, etc. but it's not really a big deal with the resources they have. Not to mention that the open source equivalent of these apps are serviceable.

Don't think it is that simple for a couple of reasons: 1) Without GMS, developers will need to fork their apps and reimplement everything they use Play services for today. That's non-trvial and I suspect a substantial number of developers would not be willing to do this. 2) Even if Huawei developed their own app store, IAP framework, etc, as I understand it the order in the US prevents Huawei from entering into any n…

>1) Without GMS, developers will need to fork their apps and reimplement everything they use Play services for today. That's non-trvial and I suspect a substantial number of developers would not be willing to do this.

True but Hawuei has the resources to actually make great open source alternatives that developers can take advantage of.

>2) Even if Huawei developed their own app store, IAP framework, etc, as I understand it the order in the US prevents Huawei from entering into any new business with US companies without a license. So, does that mean that FB, Twitter, et all would be prohibited from listing their apps? I believe so.

I guess but that's not their business.

They will have to come up with a alternative to Arm due to licensing. A RISC-V chipset developed by a major company is an interesting prospect.

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#247

Post by anoncake »

kuschku wrote: post #142
0815test wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a huge undertaking building an app for Android today without using Google's services, and sometimes even impossible. F-Droid developers manage to do it. Sure, they might not publish their apps on the Google-Play Store (some do, actually) but so what? Any Android user can freely download these entirely open apps and install them on their own, by pre-checking a box in the phone settings. That's still more than y…

I’m a publishing apps on F-Droid myself, so I’m speaking from experience there. Right now I’ve spent months on getting a full clean-room reversed version of Google’s Firebase Cloud Messaging system’s client library working, and we’re still nowhere close to that. The final goal being that we can have one, fully GPL app, which can utilize FCM if it’s installed on the phone, either through the proprietary Google Play Se…

> Right now I’ve spent months on getting a full clean-room reversed version of Google’s Firebase Cloud Messaging system’s client library working

Thank you for that.

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#248

Post by HillaryBriss »

novaRom wrote: post #193
jdright wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After this fiasco, I'm more than ever willing to change to Huawei. Best yet if they change to a platform not based on Android. I'm done with Google (and Android soon) in every possible way.

As first step I switched from terrible Android TV to WebOs and it's absolutely amazing OS. I wonder why nobody is using it in smartphones.

yeah. this discussion seems to mix up android's success as an ecosystem and android's quality as an OS and a technical achievement.

android's large market share is attributable to many things beyond the software itself, which, in any case, owes a heavy debt to Linux. replacing android as an ecosystem will require enticing a large 3rd party developer base to write apps. the worldwide android developer community is full of developers eager to you know, like, make actual money on their apps. if Huawei can create a new app marketplace where that happens for these developers, they should be able to attract abundant talent. they should imitate Apple, not Google.

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#249

Post by aerique »

nextos wrote: post #174
ehonda wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have both an S9 and a BlackBerry Q10 on me every day. The BB10 OS, even though its now defunct, was designed in a way that it is FAR easier and more practical to use. I really, really hate the Android interface as a result. 1: BlackBerry hub is a lot nicer to view messages 2: Smart use of Bezel gestures makes it much easier to actually interact with the phone: -If you want to access the hub while using an app, you…

BB10 is nice. Meego, as seen in the Nokia N9 was a really good UI too. Extremely elegant card interface, that meshed so well with a curved OLED screen. In 2011. I would love to see an alternative to the iOS / Android duopoly. One way to go would be a better F-Droid ecosystem, and pure AOSP. But perhaps, even better, a true Linux userland. Maemo lives on with Jolla. Although I hate they still have many closed componen…

Sailfish is the OS that runs on Jolla and nowadays also on the Xperia X and XA2 phones, although I heard it is not really available in the US (why?).

It's somewhat of an alternative to iOS & Android and feels like running Linux 20 years ago. You are making it harder on yourself.

Running Android apps with microg installed on it provides a decent fallback.

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#250

Post by mcrae »

wpdev_63 wrote: post #246
mcrae wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't think it is that simple for a couple of reasons: 1) Without GMS, developers will need to fork their apps and reimplement everything they use Play services for today. That's non-trvial and I suspect a substantial number of developers would not be willing to do this. 2) Even if Huawei developed their own app store, IAP framework, etc, as I understand it the order in the US prevents Huawei from entering into any n…

>1) Without GMS, developers will need to fork their apps and reimplement everything they use Play services for today. That's non-trvial and I suspect a substantial number of developers would not be willing to do this. True but Hawuei has the resources to actually make great open source alternatives that developers can take advantage of. >2) Even if Huawei developed their own app store, IAP framework, etc, as I unders…

> I guess but that's not their business.

I mean my point is that it is a total show stopper for their business if they cannot have US apps on their store! Good luck selling a £800 Android phone in the UK with no Instagram! Or a $200 one in India with no WhatsApp.

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