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Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

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Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#241

Post by inflatableDodo »

matz1 wrote: post #235
inflatableDodo wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simplest version would be a drone holding a paintbrush. Could do that now. China is one of the cheapest places to make suitable drones. Yet Chinese farmers are currently using paintbrushes.

I suspect that the reason is cost or just not good enough, but overtime it can be improve and price can go lower. So at least for me, I don't see reason to not just let bee extinct. Keep in mind that the cost to keep bee not extinct might be higher and higher.

>So at least for me, I don't see reason to not just let bee extinct.

Then I really can see no reason for you not to be forced to spend your entire life pollinating plants by hand with a paintbrush. And this goes even if there are still enough bees. We will let them watch you work while giving them little cups of honey.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#242

Post by belorn »

perfunctory wrote: post #11

We keep hearing that individual actions don't matter and that we need a system change instead. I used to hold the same opinion for the very long time. However, since recently I started to turn around. For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. What makes us think it will be any different in the coming years. Scientists keep producing report after repor…

Since this article is about biodiversity, the usual advice to address pollution don't fit perfectly. Biodiversity require a multitude of biotope and the preservation of high bio density biotope such as rain forest and corals.

Don't buy beef from places that burn down rain forests in order to raise cattle. Don't buy fish from trawling. Be extra careful with net caught fish and farmed fish, both which has higher risk of causing problem in the eco system.

Similar with vegetables. Oils from rain forest is to be avoided. Food from farms next to lakes that suffer from eutrophication is a major problem. Signs of overpopulation in lakes is a final indication of harm.

Sustainable fishing and wild game is one of few places where I know you can get some advice from governing bodies that tries to manage bio diversity. They are imperfect but at least they discuss the topic. Sadly there isn't much for other kind of food and ecological standards don't cover bio diversity or sustainability as criteria.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#243

Post by 24gttghh »

matz1 wrote: post #133
alltakendamned wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As humans, we are dependent on our ecosystem for e.g. food production. So a collapse of the ecosystem will lead to challenges for humans. You can't eat bitcoin once the bees are gone.

So bees are important, quick google search reveal the bee is important for pollination. So can't one of the solution be find alternative way for pollination. Maybe even robotic bees? With the advancement of robotic technology, its not far fetched to think that this is possible right ?

So invent a mechanical bee, or just keep the bee's alive that we already have. Which one sounds easier?

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#244

Post by sctb »

bad_user wrote: post #56
perfunctory wrote: post #11

We keep hearing that individual actions don't matter and that we need a system change instead. I used to hold the same opinion for the very long time. However, since recently I started to turn around. For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. What makes us think it will be any different in the coming years. Scientists keep producing report after repor…

> “ Reduce your meat consumption as much as you can. Don't go all the way vegan, but make meat a special treat not a commodity. ” No thank you. I know vegans have an anti-meat agenda and have been promoting this idea, however industrial agriculture as a whole is not sustainable, not just meat, and switching to a plants-based diet won’t save the planet. The elephant in the room is that sustainable farming needs to be…

> Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents.

Let's please not go round after round of this. That we get dreadful sub-threads is one thing, but that they're so predictable is the kicker.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#245

Post by [deleted] »

perfunctory wrote: post #227
ivanhoe wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Individual actions in this context are like trying to put down the fire with a single glass of water. It will certainly not hurt if you do it, but for it to have any significant effect you need everybody else to do the same at the same time. And the best way to have everyone do it is to push politicians to commit to it and create public policies to enforce it. The huge problem with individual actions is that they mak…

> The huge problem with individual actions is that they make people feel good about themselves, makes them feel like they did their part, while actually the effects of it are minimal. How is this a huge problem? What's wrong about feeling good about yourself when you are doing something good? It's actually great. You help the climate AND you feel good. Win-win. Just imagine what a hell the life would be if doing some…

[deleted]

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#246

Post by MiroF »

tjr225 wrote: post #198
MiroF wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, didn't realize I was talking to someone who believed making changes at the margin don't matter. None of your arguments justify continued high meat consumption. I don't own a car, I recycle, I live in an apartment, don't have children, thrift, compost, ??eat less?? (no - I eat sustainably, and it more than makes up for the amount I eat). > The militant "your opinion is bullshit" on individual issues Thinking yo…

I think it kind of gets lost in this debate- but lets say that the facts point towards a very grim outcome in the relatively near future. Now lets say we could possibly mitigate the grimness of that outcome with our actions...wouldn't it make sense for all of us to do everything in our power? What would we lose? A burger tastes good, sure, but who gives a flying fuck if the planet is essentially uninhabitable?

I recommend reading some essays on climate justice/meta-ethics, these are very interesting questions!

Under the assumption of utilitarianism, it does seem like we ought do everything in our power.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#247

Post by alltakendamned »

matz1 wrote: post #133
alltakendamned wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As humans, we are dependent on our ecosystem for e.g. food production. So a collapse of the ecosystem will lead to challenges for humans. You can't eat bitcoin once the bees are gone.

So bees are important, quick google search reveal the bee is important for pollination. So can't one of the solution be find alternative way for pollination. Maybe even robotic bees? With the advancement of robotic technology, its not far fetched to think that this is possible right ?

Mankind will adapt to some extent and develop alternatives, e.g. hand pollination already happens in some cases now afaik.

There is even an entire group of technology optimists that e.g. think we might be able to break ground on another planet before the effects of us handling earth are realized.

In my opinion however, it will be tremendously hard to find working alternatives at the scale of feeding 8 billion people, across the entire world. I also expect that the effects will cause issues faster than we can adapt. As such it would be much better to prevent the issue as much as possible than to try and find working alternatives under time pressure. Once the effects start showing themselves and shortages become a reality, we will start seeing climate refugees, climate wars, etc etc.

But maybe we will succeed, maybe only 7.5 billion people die off and the rest can live another day up until the next mass extinction event.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#248

Post by jlokier »

perfunctory wrote: post #234
jlokier wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Start working part time, and part of that part time remotely. With the number of people currently having to work more than one job, it's hard to see how they can switch to part-time. I know some people who pay >50% of their income towards rent, and their rent isn't especially high. It's that their income per job isn't very high, and housing is set by competitive demand in areas with jobs, not by cost of provision…

> With the number of people currently having to work more than one job, it's hard to see how they can switch to part-time. "I don't know the circumstances of every person on the planet and therefor don't know what they can do. But I think I know what HN crowd could do."

I'm sure your comment is making a point, but to be honest I can't be sure what it is.

My point was that switching to part-time seems unachievable to me for the majority of people, without changing other factors at the same time, and so we should simultaneously enquire how you recommend to deal with those other factors, for the advice to be most effective. I don't wish to dismiss the advice; I wish to understand how to solve the obstacles to actioning it.

Is your point that HN crowd are relatively well off, so part-time and remote work is available to many of the HN crowd?

(I'm pretty sure we're on the same side of the general debate, in favour of individuals taking actions that they can to improve their footprint.)

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#249

Post by DoctorOetker »

jlokier wrote: post #212
_Microft wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, you just have reached the point that others haven't yet. Your carbon footprint is much lower than theirs for sure and trying to convince someone with a higher footprint to change will be vastly more efficient than trying to squeeze the last kilogram of carbon emission reduction out of your own life. Thanks for the effort by the way!

> Nope, you just have reached the point that others haven't yet. That might be true. But I'm under the impression that: - Flying is often said to be the biggest individual climate-harming action by individuals. - Most people, even in the West, are kind of poor and haven't flown anywhere in the last decade. - Most people, even in the West, don't have "investments" unless you count a measly pension they don't have much…

> I imagine most people (in the West) [...] buy food based on price and appeal rather than climate impact.

I'm not into smartphones since my 12-13 year old phone still kind of works (lost battery cover so battery often disconnects, often bad contact with sim card...), but I know from behavior of some friends that there are apps which track foods and products by barcode for calorie intake etc..., in theory an app could by barcode pop up a warning or something pointing out the environmental impact of a product which relies on environmentally harmful soy, palm oil, ... it should list both impact of full consumption, and impact by "dose" or rate if it's say shampoo.

After using it for a while it could say calculate the impact of your choice of shampoo by looking at the first and last dates of buying a bottle and the total number of bottles minus one divided by the time between first and last... then the user could see a breakdown with sometimes perhaps counterintuitive results.

Users should be able to collaborate in verifying and correcting calculations, so only a minority need spend time and effort such that a majority can rely on the app more blindly...

Edit: adding that it's also not helping when geopolitical rifts induce my country to ... burn produced apples and pears, instead of letting their price fall for a year...

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#250

Post by bob_doggo »

samirm wrote: post #197
kilroy123 wrote: post #120

I have a theory, and I have no evidence to back this theory up. The increases in anxiety in the general public over the last decade or so is in large part to people knowing we're on an unsustainable path. We're all collectively marching towards the edge of the cliff to jump off together. More people than ever have anxiety because we subconsciously (or consciously) know this. We're unsustainable with how we pollute an…

What's the theory? So far you just stated a premise...

when someone on the internet says "theory", they usually mean it in the "everyday speak"-way, not in the "scientific definition of a theory"-way.

But somehow I guess that you already know that?

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