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Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#241

Post by lumisota »

rusk wrote: post #236
lumisota wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it isn't just apathy (as in your example). But if you compare the turn-out for the Scottish independence vote in 2014 (~85%) with the EU referendum (~72%), I think it might be a considerable factor. Another factor is complacency on the part of those that would have voted to remain: polling leading up to the referendum showed a clear remain win. (I should point out that I'm not suggesting that the result of the…

Yes, as time goes by it seems as though sense is starting to sink in, though it is still quite close. A year ago I wouldn't have been confident at all. [0] https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referen... [1] https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/03/29/where-britain-stands-br...

I'd be for a second referendum on an actual agreement for what Britain's relationship with the EU would be, post-Brexit. Some of the options, particularly those favoured by those that voted to remain, are poor.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#242

Post by justinclift »

rusk wrote: post #227
lumisota wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My argument is that the number of people who didn't vote doesn't need to be extrapolated: apathy isn't a yes or a no vote, but something else.

Are you sure it's apathy though? There are plenty of other reasons why somebody might not make it to the polling station. (EDIT: For example the elderly who have been shown to be overwhelmingly pro-brexit could have diffculty) All polling and analysis since the result bears out that the vote was indeed representative of the population.

> Are you sure it's apathy though?

Perhaps because it was very clearly billed as a non-binding referendum, which would only have an advisory impact at best?

That the politicians took a basically 50/50 result and have used it to _remove_ the EU citizenship of everyone in the UK is beyond taking the piss.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#243

Post by rusk »

lumisota wrote: post #241
rusk wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, as time goes by it seems as though sense is starting to sink in, though it is still quite close. A year ago I wouldn't have been confident at all. [0] https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referen... [1] https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/03/29/where-britain-stands-br...

I'd be for a second referendum on an actual agreement for what Britain's relationship with the EU would be, post-Brexit. Some of the options, particularly those favoured by those that voted to remain, are poor.

I think many people right across the continent would probably have similar feelings.

Many are "unhappy" with how the EU is presently being run but nobody would want to "leave".

The confusion around Brexit emerges from just how poorly the referendum was run. It was a choice between "remain" which can only be a vote for the status quo (unsatisfactory for many) and "leave" which is open to so many interpretations as to be useless.

But to call Brexit a "referendum" in any constitutional sense is talking it up a bit. It was a plebiscite. An actual binding referendum against a written constitution would have to provide actual wording; rather than just a single word.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#244

Post by wavefunction »

flukus wrote: post #162
zachrose wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Drug prohibition has been a categorical failure in every outcome it was intended to achieve. The following flavor of comment has been made many times on HN, but since I’m halfway through Michelle Alexander’s book The New Jim Crow I’m in the mood for making it again here: The drug war has been “successful”, because its goal was to incarcerate, disenfranchise, extort, terrorize, and break apart the families of minori…

This is a very US centric view but the war on drugs is very international. Cannabis is illegal in most of the world where Americas race relations simply aren't issues, so I really don't buy into this reasoning. This is good old moral superiority at work.

The term you're using (war on drugs) is an American notion. No one is claiming that all drug prohibition is due to American efforts but we've been 'successful' in exporting and reinforcing the insane attitude for decades around the world.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#245

Post by rusk »

justinclift wrote: post #242
rusk wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure it's apathy though? There are plenty of other reasons why somebody might not make it to the polling station. (EDIT: For example the elderly who have been shown to be overwhelmingly pro-brexit could have diffculty) All polling and analysis since the result bears out that the vote was indeed representative of the population.

> Are you sure it's apathy though? Perhaps because it was very clearly billed as a non-binding referendum, which would only have an advisory impact at best? That the politicians took a basically 50/50 result and have used it to _remove_ the EU citizenship of everyone in the UK is beyond taking the piss.

> it was very clearly billed as a non-binding referendum

Was it though? It seems to me that many very clearly consider it to be binding, though ridiculously the actual meaning is ambiguous.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#246

Post by isostatic »

lumisota wrote: post #215
wsc981 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... When the old stupid racists (who voted for Brexit) finally die (not so long hopefully) ... Over 50% of Great-Britain is stupid and racist? You have a source for this claim?

Regardless of the epithets used to describe them, it's worth remembering that, accounting for turn-out, it was around 37% of the British electorate that voted to leave the EU.

There are a 1.4 million 18 and 19 year olds in the UK that didn't get to vote in 2016.

Likewise there are over 1 million who did get to vote who are no longer alive.

When accounting for the entire country, about 1 in 4 voted to leave the EU, 1 in 4 voted to remain, 1 in 4 didn't know/care and trusted their MPs to do what was best, and 1 in 4 were not allowed to vote because they were too young and must rely on their MPs to do what is best.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#247

Post by ada1981 »

y4mi wrote: post #137
foolfoolz wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obviously we want to restrict access as much as possible to particular drugs, such as heroin or methamphetamine, which are so harmful and addictive that nobody should be using them, or GHB, where the potential for fatal overdose is so high. I dont understand this part. The potential for overdose on alcohol is high as well. I can go buy a plastic handle for $10 and if i drink the whole thing tonight i'll probably di…

its way easier to overdose on hard drugs than alcohol. with alcohol, its a slow progress. you keep drinkng and most people pass out / lose their will to drink after they've had enough. hard drugs are generally a single portion and once its in your blood, its too late. you cant say 'hey, i've got enough for today' once you feel it hitting you. You're already doomed if you've chosen the wrong dosage from the start. > T…

Something like 10% of users will be addicted to any given drug (less for psychedelics which can actually free people of addiction by helping release the underlying trauma). The majority of drug users of any substance are not addicts.

Overdose is most common from adulterants and from not knowing the dosage one is taking due to lack of purity information.

If your goal is to stop ODs, allowing cheap access to taxed pharma grade Drugs is your first step.

The next step is using the taxes to make access to trauma healing / education free. Trauma is the root cause of addiction, so healing frees one of the need for the addictive behavior.

Somatic based therapies, psychedelic therapy, and an environment that supports healthy living.

I work with people regularly who are able to gently walk away from addictions because they’ve healed the underlying trauma.

The benefit of this is that we will also rid ourselves of the problems we face from other addictive behaviors like sex addiction, status / money addiction, religious righteousness, etc. (See the book The Perfect Pandemic for a detailed breakdown of the various dopamine triggers we humans use).

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#248

Post by cjrp »

nerbert wrote: post #182
coldtea wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They were surprised I never did it because it was legal in the Netherlands, all I could say was that you had to be 18 to get it so I couldn't get it. I'd guess the age never stopped most of those kids

Something legal is less exciting too.

Also if something's illegal then the only way to get hold of it is through the black market, which doesn't do age checks. If it's legal, there's less likely to be a black market and so you have to go through the legitimate, age-checking vendors.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#249

Post by lumisota »

rusk wrote: post #236
lumisota wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it isn't just apathy (as in your example). But if you compare the turn-out for the Scottish independence vote in 2014 (~85%) with the EU referendum (~72%), I think it might be a considerable factor. Another factor is complacency on the part of those that would have voted to remain: polling leading up to the referendum showed a clear remain win. (I should point out that I'm not suggesting that the result of the…

Yes, as time goes by it seems as though sense is starting to sink in, though it is still quite close. A year ago I wouldn't have been confident at all. [0] https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referen... [1] https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/03/29/where-britain-stands-br...

How things might have been different if the UK government had used the result as a warning shot to the EU, and a case for reform.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#250

Post by omnimus »

Maarten88 wrote: post #191
omnimus wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well "a lot of Europe" really means Scandinavia. To be precise it is only Norway, Finland and Sweden where alcohol is sold only by one brand of state owned shops. As far as i know you can drink whatever you want, when you want after you are 18. Notable exception is Germany where from 16 you can drink undistilled drinks like beer and wine. Oh we had lot of fun when i was 16 on our school trip to Germany. Good times. A…

17% of young people (16-20) classify as "heavy drinkers here (Netherlands). I thought our youth were some of the most problematic drinkers in the world, but when looking it up, we actually aren't. It actually improved recently. Still I think that kids should start drinking later and parents are a bit too lax about it.

It is difficult question. For many people it is unfortunately one of the prominent ways how to relax and socialize (even more so in the internet age - most of dates = alcohol).

My experience (not scientific one) is that most of the people i know who have serious problems with alcohol nowdays are almost exclusively those who had very strict parents. Alcohol and drugs were heavily stigmatized in their families and once they are 18 (or out of parents homes) they just go nuts and can't handle it. People who gradually try alcohol tend to have much healthier approach to it.

I don't think prohibition works. Education does.

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