Live data from Hacker News

I have no side code projects to show you

codementor.io

241–250 of 545 posts

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#241
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah and they are going to write in the slack channel how you were so aggressive and extrapolate how bad of an employee you would be for the company, challenging every little thing with abrasive non sequiturs cute, but you'll adapt.

I'm sure they'll do that, and I'm sure they'll be happy they didn't hire me... and likewise, I'll be happy I'm not working for them.

You won't likely get hired anywhere without a work sample. Wether that be a side project, code from previous employment, or a coding test, you'll have to demonstrate you can do the work.

Many other professions also require work samples. Even salespeople are required to produce metrics from past jobs on the number of sales they made, and get put through practicals where they need to actually do a demo pitch for something.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#242
post #47
post #3

> I ran 50+ miles a week. I pushed myself to excel. To excel within the boundaries of the time and life-balance I had set for myself. Part of excelling at your job is learning new stuff - something that I am absolutely certain you do all the time, even if you only do it during work hours. Maybe this week you are starting a new project and need to learn Vue. Publish those 100 lines of code to GitHub. Just like that yo…

100 lines of code is not a meaningful amount of experience with anything, and surely cannot provide any meaningful advantage over the lifetime of a serious project compared to another developer who starts fresh. Having "dozens of technologies" at this level of experience is often a bad sign. Very frequently candidates who mention lots of technologies like this on their resume or github can't answer the simplest quest…

This kind of thinking is why most of my "side" projects aren't on Github. Sometimes a new algorithm or technology I hear about peaks my interest, and I spend a few hours playing with it. But in the end, I don't have something I would be proud to show or that properly showcases my skills, and so I don't want people extrapolating from that.

Then again, I don't claim to be an expert in these skills, and don't put them on my resume, which seems to be more what you are referring to.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want people to show up with code why aren't you asking them to take home something and show you their solution in the interview, working through it step by step?

I guess I see that as disrespectful of their time, but I could probably work something like that out. I run a small shop. I am allowed to use my good judgment.

I think many of the people on HN that say they won't do a take-home assignment would actually do a 30-60 minute take-home assignment if it meant avoiding the "code some algorithm on a whiteboard while the interviewer glares at you" situation. Then on the on-site, you can focus on the design/behavioral type things appropriate to the role's level of seniority.

Also, if you give the same assignment to multiple candidates, you'll get a better sense of how people use different approaches to solving a problem. You can still use discussions around side-projects to complement the process, but having a standard approach for all candidates is helpful.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#244

My open source projects have gotten me all but 1 of my last 4 jobs. Hands down. Yes, I still had to pass the interview, but when you can claim that your NPM package ballooned to a million monthly downloads suddenly the conversation changes from writing code to architecture, product management, and leadership. Essentially you are telling the guy on the other side of the desk that I can solve problems nobody else in th…

This comment really rubs me the wrong way. Realistically there are maybe, what, a couple hundred "million plus" downloaded npm packages, that are useful per language. That would almost seem generous. Now compare that to the number of programmers. What you are essentially saying is that it would be a reasonable expectation to only get a job as a software engineer if you are the absolutely in the top .0001% of programm…

You are correct that everybody can't get a first place trophy, or else it isn't really a first place trophy. We cannot all be the best.

That doesn't really matter though. In most cases you aren't competing with the rest of the world for a job. Typically you are competing against other applicants. In this more common scenario you just have to be better than the applicant pool, which is far less lofty (not that it matters). If there are 30 people that applied for an open position we can probably assume that between a third to a half are probably less qualified than the interviewers hoped for, so then you are realistically just competing against the remaining candidates that which is a lower number still.

In my original comment I mentioned my open source projects got me all but 1 of my last four jobs. The first of those occurred well before my software was popular and the company didn't even realize they were using it until it went up broken to NPM and broke their build. That madness didn't happen until after they interviewed me. During the interview I showed off my open source software just to demonstrate where I put my interests and how I am making effort to increase my personal productivity and solve original problems.

The software only became super popular during the prior employment.

---

On a different note I don't consider myself something special like a 0.0000000000001% programmer or anything like that. The popularity of open source software projects is a unique spiral death trap. Keep in mind you are doing this on borrowed time at personal expense and for years people will ignore you (or tell you that your software is garbage and that you are completely wrong) and use inferior products that have a more familiar brand name.

Your software becomes popular if you can solve original problems and refocus continual effort on product quality. It took me years of effort and lots of people telling me I was wrong. I just did my own thing anyways and kept doing it because it was a personal project that worked well for me. And eventually it works for a couple of other people. It is extremely rare, but there are people who like to experiment using unknown software just for the hell of it (or simply because it is free). Those people create word of mouth recommendations. Rain drops become a trickle and if the rain never stops on a long enough timeline it becomes a flood.

It is a death cycle because as more people use it the demands upon the product greatly increase. Your available time does not scale proportionately. You prioritize and do what you can. You can mitigate some of this, though, if you are able to close defects at the speed of light and can get to a point where maintenance and improvements are faster enough to allow deeper engagement with your users.

The attention is nice and the idea of breaking promises or letting people down crushes my soul. That is how I feel about unfulfilled enhancement requests even though it is completely irrational. Completing those efforts are what made the software popular, so you feel a need to not let people down and to continue to complete the requests.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#245
post #223
post #31

I’m not mad at you, but as the dude on the other side of the desk, I have to decide whether you can cut it and I’m fine saying no. I could make you do some whiteboard problems, but I think whiteboard problems are pretty far removed from your day to day development and I am uncomfortable relying on them as a proxy for your ability to ship code. I don’t really disagree with your philosophy of working while you’re worki…

I work on internal tools for a major company. You can't see them, some I probably shouldn't even tell you about. When I get home I play video games and watch tv and play with my dog. sometimes I'll screw around with a new language or something else. I don't post stuff on github and keep a blog or anything else like that. I think your view is pretty myopic. Ask me to talk for 30 minutes about one of my projects and fo…

This will sound flippant, but you can’t win them all.

There are hordes of false negatives in any hiring process, anyplace. My process is more accurate IMHO but it’s indisputably more work and it does not scale at all. Ultimately everybody is going to beef with any criteria they don’t align well with and I have to remain flexible enough to not throw the baby out with the bath water. I don’t mind getting drug a little on HN— I have a good team, and their open source contributions might not be as impressive as you assume.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I don't get about this requirement. I guess you can quickly see if a developer uses design patterns, writes tests and how easy the code is to understand. I don't think that's necessarily mind blowing though and you could still get stuck with an individual who checks all those boxes and still sucks.

You are thinking about this in terms of one applicant. When you get 200 applications it's very useful to be able to quickly weed out people who are obviously not a fit.

You can also just throw out applicant number 26 and up. You most likely have a few solid candidates in the first 25 worth a phone call. And if not, look at 26 through 50. No reason to look through all 200 at once.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#247
OK. That's fine. I have friends that will spend a month committing code on github everyday for the sole purpose to having greens on the page. It does help to get an interview because most often then not, all the employer sees is the green. No one is gonna go ahead and read the code. And if they do, what are they going to get out of it?

I've seen people fake it, adding trivial changes everyday, uploading public tutorials they followed, or just formatting.

I never ask for a github page myself because I don't know what to do with the information. But I do ask for a side project, and answering yes or no is not what makes or breaks a candidate. Instead it leads to a conversation about their coding and work philosophy.

If you don't have a side project to show for, well you must have something to talk about in our field that can convince someone that you are a good candidate.

If you do have one, well it has to be something that can convince someone that you are a good candidate.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? A lot of people (if not most) treat their non-work GitHub as a place to host random experiments and projects. Unless one plans to publish projects for others to use, no one should be forced to have perfect code for a one off idea if they don't want to. There are a lot of great engineers with empty or "bad" Github profiles.

When I look at a developer's Github profile I know that: 1. They care enough to have a Github profile 2. I can see their actual interests. 3. I know they're interested in random experiments 4. I can see if and how they treat their projects. Are they dedicated maintainers, or do they just fire off one-shot projects without ever deciding to maintain them? And a whole lot more. A person who maintains a single shell scri…

I highly doubt there's any reliable signal in any of these points. Someone is only going to maintain a shell script if it has users or it continues to be useful to them. But that fact is not significant regarding ability to deliver quality code. Not maintaining a project on github simply signals that the code isn't useful enough to anyone to maintain it.

Many people have their favored hiring "hacks", and they almost never actually signal for the things they purport to. It's way too easy to fall into confirmation bias or overstate one's ability to judge others.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#249
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only if you believe software development is neither engineering nor science, and is purely creative. It's certainly not a science, and it's very rarely engineering. About the creativity, it's a craft . There is some creativity baked in, but about the same amount as for mechanics or carpentry.

Maybe software development should be considered a trade ?

Certainly. And it should be taught like trades were for centuries: with apprenticeships.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude as a Dude who knows a little about employment law all your work code belongs to your employer.

Sure, sure. And if you followed the letter of the law I’m sure you deleted it all from your laptop promptly and is unavailable to you no matter what. But if you didn’t, for whatever reason, and you happen to have an illegal copy of some production CRUD app hanging around so I can look at how you organize your thoughts, nobody I’ve interviewed has ever gotten even a whiff of heat for letting me look over their shoulde…

A candidate showing me code they wrote for their previous employer would be pretty much an automatic black flag for me.

It's a matter of "if you want to know how they'll treat you, look at how they're treating their ex".

Post reply on HN