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It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

alexaobrien.com

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Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#241

Post by sumeno »

KGIII wrote: post #72
kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seriously see no material difference in having your video on the YouTube vs on randomvideowebsite.com? It's not merely a question of finding a host to upload your file.

Not to mention the trouble when nobody will allow you to host your legal content because they disagree with the message. Hell, even registrars are refusing to point to an IP address. I know... We all hate Nazis. I get it. I don't like them and, being not white, they definitely don't like me. But, they are the current good example of what happens when the controllers decide you can no longer share your legal content.…

> I want a world where even the deplorable are able to express their thoughts and feelings.

Yes, but we (speaking as a person, not a representative of any company) don't have to supply them with a platform to spread their hate and we don't have to sit idly by while they do it.

> Yes, speech must have restrictions. However, we already know what those restrictions are

Do we? What are they?

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#242

Post by dleslie »

blfr wrote: post #71
KGIII wrote: post #7

Well, she is easier to defend than Nazis. So, here I go... Freedom of expression, not just free speech the legal concept, should be a societal goal. Google has every right, legally, to delete this stuff. However, in an ideal world, they'd do no such thing and would let people judge based on the merits of the message. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd like to work towards that ideal world. Maybe the solution…

Above being more than a legal concept, it's also not really about expression, ie. the biggest value to society is not from Alexa O'Brien being able to express her thoughts and feelings, which is a minor benefit to her, but in us being able to read them and then choose the best ideas to adapt/copy/implement. The fact that you can make your (realistically, very tiny) contribution to the culture is much less important t…

Andrew Potter, when writing for Canada's National Post, recently called it the Right to Hear.

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/andrew-potter-dont-be-so-fre...

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#243

Post by mistermann »

shevy wrote: post #150
rphlx wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a society with no control over (certain) information is one which is more vulnerable to control by bad actors. Centralized (state and/or corporate) control over information is itself an incredible asset to bad actors. Goebbels et al..

Very true. But it gets even worse when you look at lobbyists paid by corporations. In the long run, Google will have to be split up into smaller pieces. You can't control this evil - and greedy -corporation otherwise anymore.

Unless Google can strike a mutually beneficial deal with the government. I don't think either operate in the best interests of the public.

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#244

Post by throwawayjava »

KGIII wrote: post #72
kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seriously see no material difference in having your video on the YouTube vs on randomvideowebsite.com? It's not merely a question of finding a host to upload your file.

Not to mention the trouble when nobody will allow you to host your legal content because they disagree with the message. Hell, even registrars are refusing to point to an IP address. I know... We all hate Nazis. I get it. I don't like them and, being not white, they definitely don't like me. But, they are the current good example of what happens when the controllers decide you can no longer share your legal content.…

You and parent seem to have missed my point.

I'm not defending google. I'm pointing out that using google is a choice, a choice with lots of alternatives.

Google's choice not to host certain things is itself a speech act. Don't try to police Google's speech. Instead, make sure there are plenty of alternatives to Google for the people who Google doesn't want to host.

If there's no alternative to google, then google's policing becomes a problem. THAT is why it's important that governments not censor speech -- you don't have alternative choices for government. And THAT is why privately owned censor-happy monopolies of the press are just as huge a threat to free speech as governments.

But -- and this is my point -- there are a near infinite number of alternatives to google. Google does not have a monopoly of the press.

If someone believes they can't speak freely because youtube won't host your videos, then that incorrect belief is a huge problem. A much larger problem than youtube choosing not to host their videos.

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#245

Post by linuxps2 »

eltoozero wrote: post #6
0xCMP wrote: post #2

In a lot of ways this kind of stuff is what we were warned about by many including the FSF. Cloud software you don't control, or which knows a lot about you, can be used to censor you. Always better to self-host and backup/distribute via the cloud as a secondary method. Easier said than done though.

> Easier said than done though. Not by much, once you understand the consequences.

I don't see how the consequences make it any easier to do or harder to say - hosting your own content is not only incredibly difficult to do in a secure manner, it's damn expensive. Economies of scale will always make it easier for there to be a few large content hosts as opposed to smaller, federated hosting done on the individual level (well, until better P2P methods are adopted but even then, we're talking massive amounts of storage space)

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#246

Post by Natanael_L »

Bartweiss wrote: post #237
dingo_bat wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should be hosting your own if you're serious about email.

Agreed, I suppose, but there are two further problems. First, gmail then tends to screw you on deliverability for using an unknown source - and since everyone else uses gmail, you're still at Google's mercy when trying to communicate. And second... that's our solution? Anyone who isn't capable of hosting their own email doesn't get to trust their access to their records? At a certain point we need to acknowledge that…

What else, government provided email hosting?

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#247

Post by wallace_f »

zaphirplane wrote: post #232
wallace_f wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I would say is that while gov has a role to protect people's physical safety, what else do you believe is a legitimate role in protecting people from? Is it government's responsibility to care for your emotions? Do you think gov should cover our ears from mean words? Burn books that say things that you disagree with? Who decides what is disagreeable? Me? You? Trump? Eric Schmidt? In a way, speech is already a ve…

There are cults, groups and generally evil people who gain memeber ship thru words - brain washing - those groups then cause physical harm, waiting for the harm to happen doesn't sound like protecting society While I appreciate your view I don't know where you live or who you are and I bet there is a group of people out there that hates you, and you would have a different view on freedom to publish the on google / Fa…

To your first paragraph: Take another issue, like marijuana or alcohol prohibition. I don't have to personally be into those to say that it's not a legitimate role of government to tell me whether I can use them. Also here, you can find that some will die every year because of them, and make the same argument you made: that government should jump ahead and not allow it. If they dont, then they aren't protecting society, so your argument goes.

Unfortunately here it's clear that life is far from perfect, but the moral question to ask is how can we make the best of it for all people? Should we ban everything because a few die: cars, sugar--what about swimming pools? Back flips? You see, I don't think this argument you made logically leads us to a very good world. Government can't protect us from everything. At some point we have to rely on faith in humanity. Not to mention with every power handed over from the people is given into the hands of government's propensity for corruption...

So while I don't approve of every group that will use free speech same as I dont use marijuana or have a swimming pool, but I don't think it's a legitimate role of government to regulate any of that.

In other words, I think more people will suffer w/o free speech than w/ it, but no solution will be perfect.

Ok, however your second paragrapah is really concerning me.

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#248

Post by 15155 »

doomslay wrote: post #203
KGIII wrote: post #7

Well, she is easier to defend than Nazis. So, here I go... Freedom of expression, not just free speech the legal concept, should be a societal goal. Google has every right, legally, to delete this stuff. However, in an ideal world, they'd do no such thing and would let people judge based on the merits of the message. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd like to work towards that ideal world. Maybe the solution…

The bigger problem is that Google use a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Instead of removing the videos, Google will shut down your whole google account - emails, google drive, docs, all gone - They'll do it without telling you, without recourse, no appeal, nothing. No chance of contacting a real person to discuss it. It's so odd that the left who are so up in arms about 'fascism', white supremacists, trump etc, are the…

> trump etc

> Hollywood and Silicon Valley which should be bastions of freedom and expression.

It's funny you mention this: anyone who supported "not Her" during the election was silenced and ridiculed at every turn.

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#249

Post by Natanael_L »

adventured wrote: post #82
KGIII wrote: post #7

Well, she is easier to defend than Nazis. So, here I go... Freedom of expression, not just free speech the legal concept, should be a societal goal. Google has every right, legally, to delete this stuff. However, in an ideal world, they'd do no such thing and would let people judge based on the merits of the message. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd like to work towards that ideal world. Maybe the solution…

> They can do it, but I don't have to like it. While correct currently, that isn't going to continue much longer. These abusive tech giants are about to start getting regulated left and right. You can practically hear the political machine awakening. Google's ability to freely control what is or isn't allowed on their platforms, will be replaced by government determined rules. That process has already started, it's a…

Regulation of what these companies can't do with content will only guarantee that they'll leave your jurisdiction.

Decentralized hosting is the only plausible solution.

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#250

Post by Natanael_L »

rndgermandude wrote: post #167
KGIII wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You read my post and THAT is what you took from it? Oh, wow... I'm not even remotely defending censorship, I think it's horrible. That doesn't mean they don't have a right to do so. It does mean I don't think they should. You might want to read my whole post, maybe the whole thread.

They should stop having that right, in my humble opinion. We regulate companies, trying to prevent them from doing things that we deem harmful to people or the society as a whole. I've seen a ton of people on here (not you; in general) argue that e.g. that Christian homophobe baker has to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple, or that the Hobby Lobby company has to provide access to contraceptives under ACA. So why ca…

If you take away their right to decide what to host, they'll just take away their servers from your jurisdiction.

Or they'll always limit their userbase to be below the regulated size. If we're lucky they might opt for federation like email, so that it doesn't break up the ability to reach others easily on other servers.

Decentralized hosting is the best solution.

The existing right to refuse service is currently only limited by very few laws, like discrimination law and some utility regulations. Taking away the right to refuse service will not work well at all

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