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Coinbase adds support for Litecoin

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Re: Coinbase adds support for Litecoin

#241

Post by gnaritas »

oelmekki wrote: post #235
oelmekki wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complaint is a strong word, I'm not an employee myself, I'm just trying to think about what is fair :) > That investors later trade that stock back and forth between themselves doesn't affect the company who already got paid. This is where we don't agree. I've seen plenty of times companies that made profit being moved to other countries where work is cheaper, or companies that were doing not so well asking salary cu…

Here's an other idea : insider trading could be allowed only for buying on good news. That way, there won't be people owning stock losing big money without warning. Investors won't have a chance to buy stock, but this is a miss opportunity, not harm, and they'll have plenty other opportunities elsewhere, or they can even jump in during rise and still make profit, just smaller than usual. It could even be a good thing…

> It would harm shorters, but since those ones are wishing harm to the company, it still seems fair.

No, it isn't fair; this notion that shorters are somehow bad guys is bigotry. Shorters are just as important as those who go long in keeping prices accurate, they are not bad in any way and thinking it's "fair" to fuck them is a symptom you don't understand the market. Shorters don't wish harm on companies, rather they see companies are irrationally overvalued or see the company is doing something to risky or behaving badly and expect the stock price to fall. Don't be a bigot against trading one directly over the other, they're both the same.

And no, no insider trading at all, it's always stealing; you can't come up with a way to justify stealing. It's not ok to steal from investors to make up for being treated unfairly by your company.

Re: Coinbase adds support for Litecoin

#242

Post by flyingfences »

koolba wrote: post #239
flyingfences wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By your definition the entire stock market is a ponzi scheme because early investors are "paid off" when they sell their shares to later investors.

Most (all?) publicly traded companies produce something of value which is sold and translates to income and profits. A better analogy would be buying gold which produces no dividends. An even better analogy would be pyrite.

Is a distributed, public, immutable, trustless ledger not something of value?

Re: Coinbase adds support for Litecoin

#243

Post by gnaritas »

oelmekki wrote: post #234
gnaritas wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's theft as well when people who keep buying and selling property keep profiting on people who actually keep companies running, who keep losing. I still don't understand what your complaint actually is? How are people who buy and sell stock being unfair to those who work at the company? The company got it's fair deal when it IPO'd and sold shares in exchange for money to operate. That investors later trade that s…

Complaint is a strong word, I'm not an employee myself, I'm just trying to think about what is fair :) > That investors later trade that stock back and forth between themselves doesn't affect the company who already got paid. This is where we don't agree. I've seen plenty of times companies that made profit being moved to other countries where work is cheaper, or companies that were doing not so well asking salary cu…

> The message sent by making insider trading a crime could be heard that way : we're making money with your work that we don't really care about because we won't own stock from your company a year from now, we're deteriorating your work environment, and we'll punish you if you try to join the party.

I really don't think you understand the purpose of markets. If you did you wouldn't be having thoughts like this.

Re: Coinbase adds support for Litecoin

#244

Post by koolba »

flyingfences wrote: post #242
koolba wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most (all?) publicly traded companies produce something of value which is sold and translates to income and profits. A better analogy would be buying gold which produces no dividends. An even better analogy would be pyrite.

Is a distributed, public, immutable, trustless ledger not something of value?

Not if nobody is using it. As I've mentioned a number of times, we're talking about litecoin, not bitcoin. And this isn't like silver and gold either.

Re: Coinbase adds support for Litecoin

#245

Post by elif »

twayamznacct wrote: post #193
elif wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a value store which is insulated from manipulation by Central Banks and not speculatively dependent upon the performance of a particular company or nation. It is subject to precise, predictable, and slow inflation. If you look at Greece where savings accounts got a haircut and ATM withdrawals were frozen, or Venezuela where staple commodities and health care are now in cases only available for Bitcoin due to th…

> I am excited about ethereum, which turns the global mining network into a Turing complete engine for arbiterless smart contracts Until the owners (and there are owners) of Ethereum don't like the outcome of a particular contract and roll everything back for their profit/gain.

Yup. I think the authority-less-ness of Bitcoin is what is harming it the most right now. The theft reversion was actually the moment I gained confidence in ethereum and moved half my holdings out of BTC to it. Consensus liked that move and the price went up.

If segwit becomes merged, it suffer the exact same central authority criticism, but the divided community will likely cause a shock selloff.

Re: Coinbase adds support for Litecoin

#246

Post by flyingfences »

koolba wrote: post #244
flyingfences wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a distributed, public, immutable, trustless ledger not something of value?

Not if nobody is using it. As I've mentioned a number of times, we're talking about litecoin, not bitcoin. And this isn't like silver and gold either.

But people are using it.

Re: Coinbase adds support for Litecoin

#247

Post by bluesteel44 »

ardivekar wrote: post #178
kzisme wrote: post #169

I don't really get the draw towards crypto-currencies - aside from mining them to bring more into the pool of available currency - is there a point to purchasing or using them to make purchases? Is there a reason I should start using these currencies? Aside from trading currencies to make a few bucks?

To be honest, for personal use they aren't too useful due to their volatility. However, systems like Ripple and Ethereum could have potentially very big impacts for banks and businesses. They replace a cumbersome lower layer for which settlement time is usually on the order of days

It is much easier and cheaper to set up a centralised fast settlement solution, so called RTGSS. Singapore had one for years, EMU getting one this autumn AFAIK.

Re: Coinbase adds support for Litecoin

#248

Post by oelmekki »

gnaritas wrote: post #243
oelmekki wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complaint is a strong word, I'm not an employee myself, I'm just trying to think about what is fair :) > That investors later trade that stock back and forth between themselves doesn't affect the company who already got paid. This is where we don't agree. I've seen plenty of times companies that made profit being moved to other countries where work is cheaper, or companies that were doing not so well asking salary cu…

> The message sent by making insider trading a crime could be heard that way : we're making money with your work that we don't really care about because we won't own stock from your company a year from now, we're deteriorating your work environment, and we'll punish you if you try to join the party. I really don't think you understand the purpose of markets. If you did you wouldn't be having thoughts like this.

Well, if you refuse to try to understand other points of view, that's your choice. Beware, though : in coming decade, you may find that the whole world "doesn't understand" and acts accordingly. Happy trading.

Re: Coinbase adds support for Litecoin

#249

Post by oelmekki »

iopq wrote: post #222
oelmekki wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then, they would be asked to work longer hours and accept salary cuts to make market confident again :) Not sure it would work in that direction, I don't think most people would intentionally deteriorate the company they work for.

No, they would execute their options/sell their stock and then get laid off.

Yeah, you're right. Obviously, most employees may not have the financial resources to do something big enough to be scary, but this may add up : if a company is public, it probably has a huge employee base. Employee may even not realize they are doing harm.

What would you think about allowing insider trading only on good news, that is, only buy on insider news? The only effect it would have would be miss opportunity for potential longers, but it would leave no one bag holding.

Re: Coinbase adds support for Litecoin

#250

Post by proto-n »

cashmonkey85 wrote: post #198
proto-n wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A somewhat controversial protocol upgrade developed for bitcoin. On the bitcoin network it has not reached the necessary support yet. Most bitcoiners view its activation on litecoin as a large scale beta test.

This is really not the case. It's been pair reviewed and testing for 2 years. Plus has been run on testnet since last year. It's technically superior and should be activated on bitcoin but it's been blocked for political reasons

You are reacting to something my comment doesn't say: that somehow segwit is not good enough. I only said it was somewhat controversial (which it is, for whatever reasons, didn't say it was technical) and that bitcoiners view it as a beta test, which is/was a widely accepted sentiment on both /r/Bitcoin and /r/btc. I didn't even say it needed one.

I said the latter more to illustrate the relationship between segwit+bitcoin and segwit+litecoin than segwit itself.

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