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The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

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Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#241

Post by aidos »

deanclatworthy wrote: post #155
tluyben2 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also find it interesting the Dutch rarely ever wear helmets. Good or bad; I am Dutch and I would confidently say that all people I know would never ride a bike again if they have to wear those silly helmets. More likely if it would be mandatory, they just would refuse and not do it, but if largely enforced they would just not use bikes anymore.

Odd that you say this about helmets. It only takes one mistake, one cyclist not paying attention, one mechanical fault, one swerving car or an obstacle in the road - and you'll be landing face first into the tarmac wishing you wore a helmet. 185 cyclists died last year in the Netherlands [1]. I wonder how many of those weren't wearing a helmet. I also found this interesting article [2] going into a lot more detail on…

You can argue about the pros and cons of wearing helmets - plenty of people (like me) choose not to wear them.

One thing that's fairly apparent is that making people wear them decreases cyclist numbers dramatically.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#242

Post by awjr »

deanclatworthy wrote: post #155
tluyben2 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also find it interesting the Dutch rarely ever wear helmets. Good or bad; I am Dutch and I would confidently say that all people I know would never ride a bike again if they have to wear those silly helmets. More likely if it would be mandatory, they just would refuse and not do it, but if largely enforced they would just not use bikes anymore.

Odd that you say this about helmets. It only takes one mistake, one cyclist not paying attention, one mechanical fault, one swerving car or an obstacle in the road - and you'll be landing face first into the tarmac wishing you wore a helmet. 185 cyclists died last year in the Netherlands [1]. I wonder how many of those weren't wearing a helmet. I also found this interesting article [2] going into a lot more detail on…

People seem to ignore the elephant in the room with this one. By making helmet use pro-choice, what health benefits does a nation gain? How does this impact obesity? The cost of health to the nation? Productivity? Mental health? Pollution related problems?

The bicycle is a very simple solution to a lot of problems.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#243

Post by wobbleblob »

INTPenis wrote: post #188

It's weird to see this described as a workaround, or a deliberate method, when to me as a swede living in Malmö it's the most natural thing ever. It's up to drivers, and cab drivers, to warn their passengers to be careful when opening the door. Of course this is an imperfect system but from my perspective it has worked for as long as I've lived. Swedish traffic law dictates that the one opening the door is responsibl…

Looking before opening your car door is an amazing innovation... what will they come up with next? Looking before turning?

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#244

Post by Lio »

eridius wrote: post #177
mafribe wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typical bicyle helmets don't help much with a face-first landing on the tarmac, your chin takes most of the pounding. I can confidently say that from repeated ... 'experiments'. In contrast, a motorcyle helmet that also wraps around the chin would be of great use in most bicycle accidents. 185 cyclists died A more interesting statistic would be: how many of those deaths would have been prevented by a bicycle helmet?

There are plenty of ways to have an accident that don't involve face-planting. The one time I flew over my handlebars, I landed on my left shoulder (breaking my collarbone), and my helmet probably prevented me from getting a concussion when the side of my head bounced off the road.

Bike helmets are designed to protect against skull fractures, they don't protect against concussion.

For concussion you'd probably want something which is able to decelerate the brain inside the skull gently like an airbag.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#245

Post by rwmj »

mafribe wrote: post #159
deanclatworthy wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odd that you say this about helmets. It only takes one mistake, one cyclist not paying attention, one mechanical fault, one swerving car or an obstacle in the road - and you'll be landing face first into the tarmac wishing you wore a helmet. 185 cyclists died last year in the Netherlands [1]. I wonder how many of those weren't wearing a helmet. I also found this interesting article [2] going into a lot more detail on…

Typical bicyle helmets don't help much with a face-first landing on the tarmac, your chin takes most of the pounding. I can confidently say that from repeated ... 'experiments'. In contrast, a motorcyle helmet that also wraps around the chin would be of great use in most bicycle accidents. 185 cyclists died A more interesting statistic would be: how many of those deaths would have been prevented by a bicycle helmet?

A more interesting statistic is: How many more people would have died through pollution / heart disease if everyone drove cars instead of cycling?

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#246

Post by kriro »

djsumdog wrote: post #132
smartbit wrote: post #55

It is true that getting doored is not part of the Dutch vocabulary as it is not something that happens often. But there are more reasons than grabbing the handle with the opposite hand. A non extensive list: 1) Dutch car drivers all have been bicyclist before they get their driver license, everyday to school more than an hour being nothing being frowned on. 2) Major transit bike routes have separate bike lanes, the t…

The amount of bicycles in The Netherlands is absolutely surreal. Both in major cities and out in the suburbs, bicycles are everywhere. I also find it interesting the Dutch rarely ever wear helmets. Large cities in Germany or the UK or anywhere else I've seen cannot compare to the magnitude of people on bicycles in The Netherlands.

Interestingly, in Germany there are some bicycle "hub" cities the prototypical example would be the city of Münster. My very unscientific feeling is that it's mostly mid sized cities with a university campus (especially if it's a multilocation campus spread across the entire city like in Münster).

Apart from the cities, there's also some pretty nice longer distance bike tracks. I belive Germany has one of the best bike route network/infrastructure. There's the so called D-Route (12 sections): http://www.radnetz-deutschland.de/en/d-routen.html

But the Dutch are #1 when it comes to bikes (imo).

Fun sidenote: The German term for what is typically known as a roadster bike is even "Hollandrad". In the Netherlands it's known as "Omafiets" which roughly translates to grandma-bike :)

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#247

Post by london888 »

tajen wrote: post #208
london888 wrote: post #180

Great idea but I think more of us cyclists could be riding and anticipating 'if that car door opens can I stop in time?'. We can't rely on people in cars doing the right thing. Many of us cycle too fast to be able to react in time.

It's impossible to dodge a door open by an uncareful driver. It happened to me, I was cycling really slow, I was watching that door because I suspected the driver was still inside: When the driver slammed her door open, it just hit my shoulder, there was nothing I could do, it happened too fast. Since that day, I just constantly ring my bell when bike by car doors, which must be very annoying for the neighbours. But…

fair enough - it hasn't happened to me luckily

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#248

Post by rukuu001 »

stephenr wrote: post #215

I'm not quite sure I understand. Do Americans not look at what's coming from behind them before opening a slab of metal and glass a meter out the side of their cars? Kind of reminds me of when I first moved to Thailand. My (now) mother-in-law asked her daughter why I kept looking over my shoulder when driving her car, and why/if I couldn't use the side mirrors. She had literally never heard of nor understood the conc…

Don't know about America, but lots of Australians don't look when they open up that big slab of metal.

I've also had to explain the concept of 'blind spots' in car mirrors to a lot of people - and this is something I was personally tested on for my licence.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#249

Post by adrianN »

vvpan wrote: post #110
Zanni wrote: post #51

The real answer is to get rid of street parking when you have a bike lane. They're incompatible. In fact, just get rid of street parking altogether. As a bicyclist, I've been doored. As a pedestrian, I find it difficult to see around parked cars to know if it's safe to cross the street in some locations. As a driver, I find it difficult to to see around parked cars to know if it's safe to enter the street AND I have…

That is unrealistic and has very bad consequences on the neighborhood. I've heard urban planners (in lectures) say that when there is not a row of parked cars between a street and the sidewalk, people are much less likely to walk and spend time there. So, for example, businesses close along a street when parking is suddenly prohibited. And, as others pointed out, in most cities it is unrealistic due to how little par…

Works perfectly in Japan, so I'd say that the urban planners are either full of shit or there were more variables than just a row of parked cars.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#250

Post by ptaipale »

Lio wrote: post #244
eridius wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of ways to have an accident that don't involve face-planting. The one time I flew over my handlebars, I landed on my left shoulder (breaking my collarbone), and my helmet probably prevented me from getting a concussion when the side of my head bounced off the road.

Bike helmets are designed to protect against skull fractures, they don't protect against concussion. For concussion you'd probably want something which is able to decelerate the brain inside the skull gently like an airbag.

Sure they protect against concussion. They don't prevent all concussions, but a helmet clearly diminishes the impact which causes concussion.
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