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The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

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Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#171

Post by jacquesm »

gpvos wrote: post #166
jacquesm wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you can legally split hairs about it. But the practical upshot is that if you're involved in an accident with a cyclist as a motorist it is extremely likely that you will be held responsible. That the actual law is more complex is obvious from the 'more or less' bit in the sentence above, it's not black and white but in the vast majority of accidents between cars and cyclists the driver of the car will be held r…

>official provider of traffic signs They used to be, but it's all tendered now; they lost the national contract, but still provide to most provinces and municipalities.

Ah, thanks for that update, totally missed that.

http://vorige.nrc.nl/economie/article1594978.ece

and more here:

https://www.wegenwiki.nl/Nationale_Bewegwijzeringsdienst

(Dutch)

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#172

Post by et-al »

dpark wrote: post #22
FullMtlAlcoholc wrote: post #15

Or, as a bike rider one can simply look into a cars cabin and see if a person is inside. I assume everyone is a terrible driver, have no idea I'm on the road. I am a regular bike commuter on traffic heavy Los Angeles. I'll never understand the mentality of bicyclists who are more concerned with asserting their rights as opposed to exercising caution and restraint. Graveyards are full of people who had the right of wa…

I have little confidence in my ability as a biker to recognize which of the dozens of cars I bike past might h person in them. The car could appear empty because the driver is bent over picking something off the floor. Or their head might be blocked by the headrest. Or I might just not notice them. More to the point, what am I supposed to do if I see a car with someone in it? Slam on my brakes, assuming they will doo…

You can control how vigilant the other person is, but you can control how vigilant you are.

In a bike lane, right as far away (to the left) of parked cars as possible. That already gives you a safety buffer. And if you happen to be in tight valley of parked cars, then slow down and be extra cautious, or ride fast and take the lane. And wave to a driver every now and then to say thanks. They're people with places to go, too.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#173

Post by fuckbicyclists »

Bicyclists should not be able to share the road with drivers in the cities unless they vote to become a primarily bicycle-based cities. Bikes were not meant to share the road with cars.

I often see bicyclists ambling along in front of me at 20 m.p.h. and even if they're to the side of the road I still have to slow down to avoid any risk of hitting them, with cars coming up behind me. I'm usually forced to change lanes on short notice, which is dangerous.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#174

Post by pjmlp »

djsumdog wrote: post #132
smartbit wrote: post #55

It is true that getting doored is not part of the Dutch vocabulary as it is not something that happens often. But there are more reasons than grabbing the handle with the opposite hand. A non extensive list: 1) Dutch car drivers all have been bicyclist before they get their driver license, everyday to school more than an hour being nothing being frowned on. 2) Major transit bike routes have separate bike lanes, the t…

The amount of bicycles in The Netherlands is absolutely surreal. Both in major cities and out in the suburbs, bicycles are everywhere. I also find it interesting the Dutch rarely ever wear helmets. Large cities in Germany or the UK or anywhere else I've seen cannot compare to the magnitude of people on bicycles in The Netherlands.

Not only in The Netherlands, in most European cities actually.

And if you go down to the Mediterranean countries even on motorbikes, not everyone wears on at least on city traffic.

Regarding bike helmets, they usually only protect if you fall vertically on your head, making their protection capability highly questionable.

They offer zero protection over getting hit by a car or falling off the bike.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#175

Post by eridius »

et-al wrote: post #161
djsumdog wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of bicycles in The Netherlands is absolutely surreal. Both in major cities and out in the suburbs, bicycles are everywhere. I also find it interesting the Dutch rarely ever wear helmets. Large cities in Germany or the UK or anywhere else I've seen cannot compare to the magnitude of people on bicycles in The Netherlands.

Most people in China don't wear helmets either. Helmets prevent brain injury, but generally you'd have to be going pretty fast, or get hit by a car really fast to land on your head to require one (and then you probably have other injuries to contend with). Also, we have bike light laws in California, but there are plenty of cyclists that don't use them. Personally, if I had to choose between riding without a helmet,…

It's not hard to be going fast inadvertently. The worst bike accident I was in involved me coming down a hill, stopping at the bottom on what turned out to be an invisible bump, and flying over my handlebars. I broke my collarbone upon landing, but if I hadn't been wearing a helmet it would have been a lot worse. It just seems foolhardy to me to ride a bike without a helmet, like driving a car without a seatbelt.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#176

Post by Symbiote »

djsumdog wrote: post #132
smartbit wrote: post #55

It is true that getting doored is not part of the Dutch vocabulary as it is not something that happens often. But there are more reasons than grabbing the handle with the opposite hand. A non extensive list: 1) Dutch car drivers all have been bicyclist before they get their driver license, everyday to school more than an hour being nothing being frowned on. 2) Major transit bike routes have separate bike lanes, the t…

The amount of bicycles in The Netherlands is absolutely surreal. Both in major cities and out in the suburbs, bicycles are everywhere. I also find it interesting the Dutch rarely ever wear helmets. Large cities in Germany or the UK or anywhere else I've seen cannot compare to the magnitude of people on bicycles in The Netherlands.

People cycling as fast as they can wear helmets, this is usually seen at the weekends when a few people swap their city bike for a racing bike and ride round the countryside.

Motorists who enjoy racing also wear helmets when speeding round the race track, but don't wear them on the commute.

No doubt deaths around be prevented if car occupants wore helmets, but it's not considered risky, just like routing cycling.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#177

Post by eridius »

mafribe wrote: post #159
deanclatworthy wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odd that you say this about helmets. It only takes one mistake, one cyclist not paying attention, one mechanical fault, one swerving car or an obstacle in the road - and you'll be landing face first into the tarmac wishing you wore a helmet. 185 cyclists died last year in the Netherlands [1]. I wonder how many of those weren't wearing a helmet. I also found this interesting article [2] going into a lot more detail on…

Typical bicyle helmets don't help much with a face-first landing on the tarmac, your chin takes most of the pounding. I can confidently say that from repeated ... 'experiments'. In contrast, a motorcyle helmet that also wraps around the chin would be of great use in most bicycle accidents. 185 cyclists died A more interesting statistic would be: how many of those deaths would have been prevented by a bicycle helmet?

There are plenty of ways to have an accident that don't involve face-planting. The one time I flew over my handlebars, I landed on my left shoulder (breaking my collarbone), and my helmet probably prevented me from getting a concussion when the side of my head bounced off the road.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#178

Post by hanspeter »

vvpan wrote: post #110
Zanni wrote: post #51

The real answer is to get rid of street parking when you have a bike lane. They're incompatible. In fact, just get rid of street parking altogether. As a bicyclist, I've been doored. As a pedestrian, I find it difficult to see around parked cars to know if it's safe to cross the street in some locations. As a driver, I find it difficult to to see around parked cars to know if it's safe to enter the street AND I have…

That is unrealistic and has very bad consequences on the neighborhood. I've heard urban planners (in lectures) say that when there is not a row of parked cars between a street and the sidewalk, people are much less likely to walk and spend time there. So, for example, businesses close along a street when parking is suddenly prohibited. And, as others pointed out, in most cities it is unrealistic due to how little par…

It's not completely unrealistic: http://minby.dk/noerrebronordvest-bladet/wp-content/uploads/... (Copenhagen, Denmark).

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#179

Post by pareidolia »

smartbit wrote: post #55

It is true that getting doored is not part of the Dutch vocabulary as it is not something that happens often. But there are more reasons than grabbing the handle with the opposite hand. A non extensive list: 1) Dutch car drivers all have been bicyclist before they get their driver license, everyday to school more than an hour being nothing being frowned on. 2) Major transit bike routes have separate bike lanes, the t…

Correct link is http://www.fietsersbond.nl/
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