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When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

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Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#241

Post by legulere »

Retric wrote: post #169
erdevs wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that China outplayed the West here by a wide margin. For some reason, the West has let China get away with extremely protectionist trade policies the likes of which no one else in the world would dare even attempt. I think this was a combination of fear that isolating China vs creating a high degree of economic interdependence could lead to war down the line, and a lack of control over Western companie…

China exchanged trillions of goods at below market rates due to games with their exchange rate. This worked because the government does not care about it's populace and can extract a lot of value from an oppressed population. The populace benefited from increasing purchasing power though far less and far slower than most developing nations. I would say the US and communist party members got a great deal and the Chine…

You could also tell the very opposite story. In the last around 20 years, the poor and middle class in china greatly benefited from the economic growth, while the poor and middle class in the west didn't benefit at all or even had a wage cut if you look at inflation adjusted wages. China is hardly a developing nation anymore.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#242

Post by legulere »

batbomb wrote: post #22
skynetv2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China ended up with last generate tech we are way past that point. China has leap frogged pretty much everyone else in every aspect. It took China less than a year to build the worlds fastest supercomputer (unclassified) after US placed restrictions on related technology exports to China. China was building components for supercomputers over the past decade, they would show case a network, a small processor, coolin…

Owning the fastest supercomputer in the world is mostly irrelevant these days, because the entire thing just gets partitioned into smaller chunks in actual use. It's just never in anyone's interest to run a job that utilizes all the resources. At the end of the day, most of these computers are just a pissing contest and are rarely cost effective, and are almost always a huge pain in the ass to use.

It's so irrelevant, that the US embargoed China over that.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#243

Post by legulere »

chrischen wrote: post #86
sunstone wrote: post #7

The West and China are playing a global chess game and have been for some time. An impoverished China was not in the West's interests and so they agreed to buy all kinds of lowish tech Chinese made goods. In return most jurisdictions enforced a balance of trade with China, with the exception of the US. On their end China insisted on joint ventures and technology transfer to the extent Western companies would comply.…

You make it sound like the West consciously decided to outsource to China. This is not the case, and the West would not have had the unity to be able to consciously do such a thing. Simple market dynamics caused this, albeit caused by market manipulation on China's part. China buys US debt, lowering the value of the Chinese dollars to the US dollar, making stuff in China dirt cheap.

International trade isn't a free market in the typical sense, and countries are the largest actors.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#244

Post by cttet »

pests wrote: post #226
gbog wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese civilization is different from western civilization, specially in its habit to absorb other culture, instead of conquering them. China had a Mongol dynasty, a Manchu dynasty. But it never rode to the other side of the world to force remote populations to change their religion or political system.

This interests me. Do you know of any good books, articles, or other sources I could learn more about this topic? Specifically your first sentence.

https://archive.org/details/problemofchina00russ Not exactly answers the question, but I quite like Russel's view on this.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#245

Post by jld89 »

muninn_ wrote: post #118
conanbatt wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it a problem if China develops a higher GDP than the US. Its not a problem for the people. It might be a problem to politicians that want to tell a story, but wishing china to do worse economically is truly backwards. If china comes out with better technology than the us, better products and services, cheaper and all that, the whole world gets better. If you dont believe that, then you must for the sake of con…

China's GDP compared to it's population is interesting. 3-4 times the population of the US but 80% of the GDP. To me it only seems natural that they will eventually overtake the United States in GDP. India should too, as should the EU

The EU has the biggest GDP in the world btw.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#246

Post by dilemma »

learc83 wrote: post #159
narrator wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The west's critical flaw is that it believes its own propaganda. The "Washington Consensus" believed that no country could develop or resist the temptations of the "superior" culture and understanding of the western financial system and industry. That the countries that they were moving into were hopeless without their intelligence and guidance and would quickly fall in line and become dependent and helpless without…

Talk about believing propaganda. You're falling for Chinese propaganda hook, line, and sinker. Broad Sustainable Building Group is basically one giant propaganda machine propped up by government loans. They've been talking about building the world's tallest building in only 90 days for years, but they recently dropped the idea because it was never a serious proposal . Buildings of this height need rigidity from huge…

BSB is a subsidiary of China's largest manufacturer of industrial air conditioners, boilers, and related products, and that's where their financing comes from.

They are able to finish onsite construction quickly because their buildings are modularized and 90% of the work is done in the factory.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#247

Post by vinceguidry »

MarkMc wrote: post #239
vinceguidry wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If China becomes more powerful they may decide to conquer the US properly. That's utterly hilarious. If there's a world in which that's even remotely possible, we'll all be long, long dead by the time it happens.

I wouldn't be so sure. China's GDP per capita is currently about 14% of the United States [1]. That's roughly the same ratio that Japan faced in 1960, yet within 30 years Japan overtook the US in GDP per capita [2]. My view is that China has a number of economic and demographic disadvantages that mean in 30 years China is 'only' likely to reach 30-50% of US GDP per capita. But with a population projected to be 3 time…

First, the post I responded to did not claim that our militaries could reach parity. It claimed that China could conquer the US. That's impossible, preposterous even, and the only thing that could change that is the singularity, and if that happens all bets are off.

Second, even reaching parity is an immensely daunting proposition. If China were to start building ships and aircraft, the US would respond in kind. Right now there's a lot of overhead and waste in the procurement process, that waste would disappear if shit suddenly got real. Sure, we 'only' have 20 carrier groups right now, but there's no reason we can't have 40.

There's two main force multipliers I see that we have that China will never be able to catch up with us on. First, training and experience. The reason we keep a small military manpower-wise is because every US soldier is extremely well-trained. If China conscripted a percentage of their population, they could instantly have a larger army, but that army would then need to be trained in how to conduct modern warfare.

Second, alliances with other countries. The best air-to-air missile right now is the Meteor, it's being developed in Sweden and sold throughout Europe. If China started rising militarily, the US and Europe would immediately start cooperating to counter it by sharing technology.

The US has an enormous amount invested in its military dominance, it will not give that up at any cost. China could not reach parity slowly, as it would never catch up, and it can't reach it quickly, because we'd notice and respond appropriately. It would be such a huge drain on their economy that they'd abandon the effort.

The Soviets never even came close to parity in conventional force projection. The Chinese wouldn't either in a strategic arms race. Even if they did, they'd still never in a million years be able to conquer the US. As well try to conquer the Sun.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#248

Post by gbog »

pests wrote: post #226
gbog wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese civilization is different from western civilization, specially in its habit to absorb other culture, instead of conquering them. China had a Mongol dynasty, a Manchu dynasty. But it never rode to the other side of the world to force remote populations to change their religion or political system.

This interests me. Do you know of any good books, articles, or other sources I could learn more about this topic? Specifically your first sentence.

Any book on the long history of China would do, I'm not sure which one in English should be recommended.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#249

Post by Sammi »

diego_moita wrote: post #30

> Uber felt it was treated fairly by a government > my guess is that if [...] had been more successful, China would have put a Mao-sized thumb on the scales. This is how it lost me, it shows how light he is on facts. I do agree with the 2 statements "China is protectionist" and "protectionism is bad". But I am cynical enough to see that everyone carefully pics which protectionism they complain about. As a Brazilian I…

Farming protectionism is different from other protectionism, because self-sufficient farming is a national military security goal. If a nation gets into a huge war, then you want to still be able to feed the people.

In general any nation would want to be self-sufficient in all basic necessities, that would come under threat in war time.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#250

Post by diego_moita »

Sammi wrote: post #249
diego_moita wrote: post #30

> Uber felt it was treated fairly by a government > my guess is that if [...] had been more successful, China would have put a Mao-sized thumb on the scales. This is how it lost me, it shows how light he is on facts. I do agree with the 2 statements "China is protectionist" and "protectionism is bad". But I am cynical enough to see that everyone carefully pics which protectionism they complain about. As a Brazilian I…

Farming protectionism is different from other protectionism, because self-sufficient farming is a national military security goal. If a nation gets into a huge war, then you want to still be able to feed the people. In general any nation would want to be self-sufficient in all basic necessities, that would come under threat in war time.

Well, that's exactly my point and that's exactly what hypocrisy looks like.

Every protectionism is different because ... reasons. There will always be an "what if..." to justify everything.

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