Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code • Hacker News Board

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#231

Post by sskates » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 1:07 AM UTC

ditonal wrote: post #224

sskates wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an example of a job opening where they're offering 60k for a MIT programmer? I can give you a bunch where they offer substantially more (all $100k+ with just an undergrad degree): https://www.google.com/about/jobs/search/#t=sq&q=j&j... http://careers.microsoft.com/careers/en/us/grad-software-job... https://www.dropbox.com/jobs

You are totally missing my point. Yes, I realize MIT programmers make more and you need to pay them well to hire them. However, if you look at average software engineering salaries, you will realize most people do not pay as well as prestigious tech companies. Yet their job openings are used to indicate a shortage. Shortages are just low bids in a market, the fact that lots of people want to buy gold at $1 an ounce d…

I'm just asking for a few examples. Do you have any where they advertise an open job but the pay is low?

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#232

Post by kevin_rubyhouse » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 3:58 AM UTC

duaneb wrote: post #227

kevin_rubyhouse wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These schools would offer the course if enough of the students are interested. There is no lack of information around us (internet, libraries, sit down at a book store) to learn programming. The issue is the perception of programming in high school - the stigma around it. This might be perpetuated by some of the more eccentric programmers, and these programmers are very good and tend to grow into strong programmers!…

No, this is just false. My high school was run by incompetent people, the result being Photoshop classes being offered to people wanting to program. This is further complicated by people who can't afford their own computers or internet and are explicitly disallowed from programming at the library. You have a very optimistic view of high schools.

That seems like a really bad scenario, but there are computer science classes and AP/AB CS classes that need to follow a certain curriculum for the Computer Science AP Test by the College Board. I graduated from high school only a year and a half ago in Washington, so I would agree that my perception of schools is skewed towards wealthier districts.

You don't agree that any student should be allowed to program on computers in the library? It seems like a security issue, whereas in a classroom students would be supervised by a computer science instructor. I'm not saying students need to be hand held, but schools really just don't know enough about programming to open it up. Web development, Flash, and Photoshop could be installed on library computers - they were on a few where I went. Otherwise I totally understand why school district IT would not allow it or fight against it.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#233

Post by elbear » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 9:29 AM UTC

doktrin wrote: post #203

cookiecaper wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being "well-versed in computers" is not the same thing as being a valuable programmer. If you are a valuable programmer and you still can't find a job without a degree, you're doing something wrong (what you're doing wrong varies individually, of course). I have no degree, and have never gone more than a month without a job offer while actively looking for a position. One time it took two months to find a position wi…

What exactly is a " valuable programmer "? It's about as vague a notion as being " well versed in computers ". Edit : essentially, you just re-defined bar without providing any real context. Taken a step further (and perhaps in a different job market), someone might say "oh, well being a valuable programmer isn't the same as being a Rockstar programmer..." The key lies in the word "valuable", which is completely situ…

I don't know exactly what a valuable programmer is, but I'll give you numbers regarding my situation, so that we talk about concrete things.

I do Python/Django work and I have 3 years of experience. I have a GitHub profile which I show when applying for jobs and my profile shows that I've made 359 contributions in the last year. I have a LinkedIn profile through which details the technologies I use and the experience I have.

Since the start of the year, I think I've been contacted by 10 recruiters with job proposals. I chose to work remotely though, with clients outside of my country.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#234

Post by ditonal » Fri, Mar 01, 2013, 7:39 PM UTC

sskates wrote: post #231

ditonal wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are totally missing my point. Yes, I realize MIT programmers make more and you need to pay them well to hire them. However, if you look at average software engineering salaries, you will realize most people do not pay as well as prestigious tech companies. Yet their job openings are used to indicate a shortage. Shortages are just low bids in a market, the fact that lots of people want to buy gold at $1 an ounce d…

I'm just asking for a few examples. Do you have any where they advertise an open job but the pay is low?

With exceptions, salaries aren't advertised in job openings. However you can look at average software engineering salaries to learn that most salaries are south of 100k, and it seems unlikely that on average higher salaries are getting turned down for much lower ones. Furthermore, specific examples are unnecessary. I originally asked for metric that proved there was a developer shortage, and explained why job openings are a bad indication of one. There have been none other proposed to my knowledge, so you're really just nitpicking details irrelevant to my original point.