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The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

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Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#231

Post by jasonlotito »

snprbob86 wrote: post #217
jasonlotito wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you have reason to be afraid, but... > Charm simply does not work on underpaid meatheads Charm, or respect, works on people. Sorry, but when you call them meatheads, it doesn't instill me with any confidence that you treated them with respect. The actions you describe support that fact (mostly through the way you describe it). Again, maybe you have a reason, but unless you are leaving critical things out, your…

The more important part of that sentence, which you elided, was the fact that there was a language communication barrier. I treated them with nothing but respect in person. I always joke around and make small talk with people in the service industry. I know how far that sort of thing can take you. However, I elected to use the word "meatheads" because it paints a picture: They were large men whom couldn't hold a conv…

> The more important part of that sentence, which you elided, was the fact that there was a language communication barrier.

It's not more important. You're attitude has nothing to do with language.

> However, I elected to use the word "meatheads" because it paints a picture: They were large men whom couldn't hold a conversation.

Meathead is means far more than that. If you used it merely to mean "people I can't speak with and are large," than you should know it's not what people associate with that word. It's much more derogatory.

> I treated them with nothing but respect in person.

At least the first time.

At once you tell me that they can't communicate, but then you go on to imply that they understand the words you are writing out on paper (Perfect Condition).

Something doesn't add up.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#232

Post by jasonlotito »

ugk wrote: post #211
jasonlotito wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you have reason to be afraid, but... > Charm simply does not work on underpaid meatheads Charm, or respect, works on people. Sorry, but when you call them meatheads, it doesn't instill me with any confidence that you treated them with respect. The actions you describe support that fact (mostly through the way you describe it). Again, maybe you have a reason, but unless you are leaving critical things out, your…

Respect is earned. Treating another person with immediate decency is an honorable thing, but to give respect freely indicates a weakness that will be exploited. They were there to do a job, not have tea and chat about local charity.

> Treating another person with immediate decency is an honorable thing

That's respect.

> Respect is earned.

You are confusing trust with respect. The only people that believe that respect is earned are people that need to an excuse to act like an asshole. Respect costs nothing.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#233

Post by jmccree »

LancerSykera wrote: post #133
chmike wrote: post #122

They didn't stole the boat, they seized it. Not wanting to sign an erroneous legal document is respectable, calling the DHS stealers is clearly not. Don't be surprize if they won't cooperate to solve the matter ASAP.

They took it by force. If I took your car by force, what would you call it?

Are you a repo person and my car loan invalidated? Did I steal my car from someone else? Was a car matching my car's description involved in a crime nearby that a judge ordered a warrant for a black ford F150 with a "geeks rule" bumper sticker? Are you a Customs/Border Patrol Agent and I do not have the proper paper work on the car I'm attempting to drive in? Are you a police officer and I do not have a driver's license on I-75? If any of the above, lawful seizure by government authorities, not theft.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#234

Post by MechaJDI »

snprbob86 wrote: post #76
javajosh wrote: post #10

Ah, procedure. I'm particularly fond of situations like this where the procedure is, for the normal person, a once-in-a-lifetime event. But the flunky on the other side of the desk does it every day. And they think you are yet another stupid person who doesn't understand the simple procedure, and they have nothing but contempt for those who don't understand the procedure as deeply as they do (especially which parts o…

> [T]he procedure is, for the normal person, a once-in-a-lifetime event. But the flunky on the other side of the desk does it every day. I just had a TV delivered. And then a replacement delivered, but they were unauthorized to pick up the original, so the same two delivery guys had to come back a third time. All three times, the delivery guys tried to force me to sign an incomplete form. They clearly wanted me to si…

Somewhat clever but signing an 'X' didn't make it not your signature but rather just what you 'signed as'. :P

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#235

Post by Swannie »

einhverfr wrote: post #64

One thing that I have learned is that every encounter with law enforcement (and that includes customs) is governed by power relationships. One simple example: If I am pulled over for speeding, I find I am far less likely to get a ticket if I put myself in control over the interaction. I make sure I greet the officer first and ask what I can do to help. This puts me in a position of being outwardly subservient but the…

You're not in control when you are pulled over. But its in the police officers interest to let you believe you are, as you will act in a predictable manner.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#236

Post by aeturnum »

danielweber wrote: post #218
aeturnum wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you shouldn't have to kiss somebody's ass just so that they do their jobs. You don't. The person in this story did her job. He wouldn't sign the papers so she seized the boat. She also doesn't have the authority to change the papers. Her job is, if something goes sideways, impound everything and let the other parties sort it out. The author of the article wanted a small and very reasonable exception made for his cas…

Yours is a minority viewpoint here, and I wish it got more explanation. If the bureaucrat's only two options were a) let the guy have the boat, or b) take the boat so someone else can sort it out, then I'm definitely more sympathetic to the bureaucrat here. Is that understanding correct?

From the point of view of the border, the item has already been released from Canada. They almost certainly can't just dump it back on the other side (they would have to refuse it entry to the US). They also can't give it to him w/o the proper paperwork (bureaucracy aside, that paperwork insures that the proper fees and taxes are administered). If he won't sign, the only thing they can do is hold the property. Eventually, they'll bill the owner for the cost of holding it or sell it at auction.

I don't know the code at all, but logic suggests this is the most likely scenario.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#237

Post by justin66 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #206
justin66 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This highlights a problem which isn't unique to Australia. For example, if a potential employer (or whoever) asks you if you've ever been arrested and your record has been expunged or you've been pardoned, you are expected to lie and say "no". That is how the system works. It sucks, but learning how to deal with these sorts of things is part of the price one has to pay when they have a run-in with the law. I'm not su…

That's not a lie. The actual meaning of the question question is if you have officially ever been arrested. And the answer is no, that arrest is no longer official. Getting the payment denomination wrong is an actual falsity. Though it would have been easy to make a note when signing.

> That's not a lie. The actual meaning of the question question is if you have officially ever been arrested. And the answer is no, that arrest is no longer official.

That's completely incorrect. An "official" arrest (what is its opposite? I wouldn't want to experience an unofficial arrest) doesn't stop being "official," although the record of it might be deleted or sealed. Nobody can make an arrest retroactively not happen, they can just remove the record of it.

But this brings up something important, and it might be the cause of your confusion. An arrest is just an arrest. It can happen to anyone, and importantly, it can happen to a person who is innocent both in reality and in the eyes of the law. Arrest records don't really mean what a lot of people think they mean: it's the courts, not the police, who decide guilt and innocence.

This is why asking people about arrests, or using arrest information for pretty much any purpose except police investigation, is fundamentally flawed.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#238

Post by lazyjones »

robomartin wrote: post #142
akashshah wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, Arrington is an ardent follower of Libertarianism

If that's the case maybe he can become visibly active in political circles and demand that the public be educated as to what is being done to our country.

He can now, but nothing will change if people become interested in the problems caused by the DHS and politically active only after they've had a bad experience themselves.

People are being harrassed and fondled by the DHS every day apparently. One seized boat isn't going to cause a revolution ...

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#239

Post by Dylan16807 »

justin66 wrote: post #237
Dylan16807 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a lie. The actual meaning of the question question is if you have officially ever been arrested. And the answer is no, that arrest is no longer official. Getting the payment denomination wrong is an actual falsity. Though it would have been easy to make a note when signing.

> That's not a lie. The actual meaning of the question question is if you have officially ever been arrested. And the answer is no, that arrest is no longer official. That's completely incorrect. An "official" arrest (what is its opposite? I wouldn't want to experience an unofficial arrest) doesn't stop being "official," although the record of it might be deleted or sealed. Nobody can make an arrest retroactively not…

It's true that arrest information is useless, I was thinking more about harsher things being expunged.

And they do stop being official, in a sense. They are no longer tied to you as a current person, they become a burden of the past you, ending at the point of expunging.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#240

Post by einhverfr »

Swannie wrote: post #235
einhverfr wrote: post #64

One thing that I have learned is that every encounter with law enforcement (and that includes customs) is governed by power relationships. One simple example: If I am pulled over for speeding, I find I am far less likely to get a ticket if I put myself in control over the interaction. I make sure I greet the officer first and ask what I can do to help. This puts me in a position of being outwardly subservient but the…

You're not in control when you are pulled over. But its in the police officers interest to let you believe you are, as you will act in a predictable manner.

Control is relative though and nuanced. The question is one of initiative and nuance and a matter of trying to establish things up front. The officer can be legally in control, and in control of some aspects (i.e. you are not free to go) but still not in control over where the social interactions/conversation leads.

To give you an idea, I once got a warning (or maybe it was a greatly reduced speeding ticket, I don't recall) and found out the next day from someone who apparently knew the officer who pulled me over that I was suspected of having drugs in my car (which was a total misunderstanding, he saw some things he didn't recognized assumed they must be bongs or something and extrapolated from there). Go figure....

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