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The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

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Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#141

Post by robomartin »

Bud wrote: post #138
robomartin wrote: post #128

Hiring a lawyer will get your boat back. It will not fix the problem. The problem is too much government. Perhaps you should consider this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism We don't need to eliminate government, of course. Someone still has to throw parties for foreign dignitaries and say stupid shit on TV. We do need to trim it down to the bone and get it out of our daily lives. You just had a run-in with…

Blah, blah, blah. The problem isn't some vague platitude about how there is "too much government". This wasn't caused by Social Security or other defined benefit programs (which make up most of "government"), or by the Veterans Administration, or by the Postal Service, or by FDA. It was caused by one specific agency, created by W, which should never have been created, is duplicative by its very nature, and which has…

There's nothing whatsoever wrong with conservation and responsible fishing or hunting. That has nothing whatsoever to do with me not being able to fish without a license. I should be able to fish any time I want without having to have a license as a prerequisite.

Now, we can debate ideas on how to prevent over-fishing and over-hunting. And that's OK. I am all for that. I won't put forth any proposals here because it is a complex subject. Licenses don't stop over-fishing. I've seen people take fish species, sizes and quantities that they are not supposed to.

See, here's the difference. I firmly believe that people --outside of extreme circumstances-- are good, not evil. For me at least, published guidance on such things as what species, sized and quantities to take would be enough. I don't need a law and a guy with a uniform and a gun to make me abide by reasonably justified social guidelines. Maybe some people do. I think most don't. A license, a background check or a permit and a set of laws will never prevent bad actors to, well, act badly.

I am using this idea of fishing licenses as an example of how much control government has over you. I live near a lake. I also live in earthquake country. Let's say we have an earthquake that takes down our infrastructure for a few weeks. If I need to walk over to the lake and fish in order to feed my family for a couple of weeks I should not need a government permit to do so. It is a fundamental right as a human animal on this planet to be able to feed yourself and yours. What's more basic than that? We have taken it to the level where you could be arrested for providing for your family. Not gonna happen? It's up to the thug with the gun isn't it. And, by the way, you are driving with one hand.

What? Politicians and officials don't twist things their way in the US like in places like South America?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST-eE4Ud7nw

Right.

I wonder how much of that goes on that we never become aware of.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#142

Post by robomartin »

akashshah wrote: post #137
robomartin wrote: post #128

Hiring a lawyer will get your boat back. It will not fix the problem. The problem is too much government. Perhaps you should consider this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism We don't need to eliminate government, of course. Someone still has to throw parties for foreign dignitaries and say stupid shit on TV. We do need to trim it down to the bone and get it out of our daily lives. You just had a run-in with…

IIRC, Arrington is an ardent follower of Libertarianism

If that's the case maybe he can become visibly active in political circles and demand that the public be educated as to what is being done to our country.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#143

Post by InclinedPlane »

Bud wrote: post #138
robomartin wrote: post #128

Hiring a lawyer will get your boat back. It will not fix the problem. The problem is too much government. Perhaps you should consider this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism We don't need to eliminate government, of course. Someone still has to throw parties for foreign dignitaries and say stupid shit on TV. We do need to trim it down to the bone and get it out of our daily lives. You just had a run-in with…

Blah, blah, blah. The problem isn't some vague platitude about how there is "too much government". This wasn't caused by Social Security or other defined benefit programs (which make up most of "government"), or by the Veterans Administration, or by the Postal Service, or by FDA. It was caused by one specific agency, created by W, which should never have been created, is duplicative by its very nature, and which has…

DHS is a problem but it is not the problem. It's a symptom of the problem of excessive government control over our lives. For the most part the DHS is just an amalgam of other agencies anyway, and those would still exist even if the DHS did not.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#144

Post by nthj »

chmike wrote: post #122

They didn't stole the boat, they seized it. Not wanting to sign an erroneous legal document is respectable, calling the DHS stealers is clearly not. Don't be surprize if they won't cooperate to solve the matter ASAP.

DHS behaved in a morally indefensible manner. I don't care if Arrington is telling a one-sided story and was actually a total asshole: DHS works for the American public and my tax dollars pay for the pain of putting up with jerks for the public good.

Hence, they stole his boat. If the President were to show up at my parents' doorstep without a warrant or probable cause and shoot my little sister because he was having a bad day, would you call it a lawful execution? No, it's murder.

That's an extreme exaggeration to prove my point. But that's where your logic ends up. Having a badge that reads "Government Agent" does not mean all your actions are moral or legal.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#145

Post by rdl »

tptacek wrote: post #6
homosaur wrote: post #3

DHS honestly makes me embarrassed to be an American. We could kill the whole thing tomorrow and it would make zero difference to public safety.

This doesn't make too much sense. DHS isn't one thing; it's many things glommed into one, including INS, CBP, FPS, TSA, APHIS, FEMA, the strategic medical stockpile, the Coast Guard, and the Secret Service, among others. I don't like the TSA any more than you do, but can we hold on to the Coast Guard?

USCG's role in the drug war is IMO fairly unconscionable as well. It's horrible that they take what would otherwise be an essentially purely good and morally unquestionable agency (saving people's lives on the water, navigation, environmental protection, defense of the coast during wartime) and turn it into one of the leading edges on the war on freedom.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#146

Post by melvinmt »

justin66 wrote: post #39
sivers wrote: post #11

A guy I know was in a similar situation when trying to enter Australia. 20+ years ago, when he was 18, he was arrested for the afternoon because of a student protest. So now on the visa forms, when entering Australia on vacation, he was asked if he had ever been arrested. He checked yes. The border control people in Australia denied him entry, and put him on the next plane back home. When he told the border guy the f…

This highlights a problem which isn't unique to Australia. For example, if a potential employer (or whoever) asks you if you've ever been arrested and your record has been expunged or you've been pardoned, you are expected to lie and say "no". That is how the system works. It sucks, but learning how to deal with these sorts of things is part of the price one has to pay when they have a run-in with the law. I'm not su…

I'm wondering, isn't asking for your criminal history during job interviews the same as discriminating based on age or race? I mean, even if you were convicted, you've paid the price by doing your time and after that you should have equal opportunities at a job like anyone else, right?

Maybe I'm just too idealistic but I never understood why we hardly give these people a second chance. And then people wonder why recidivism rates are so high.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#147

Post by Cushman »

tomjen3 wrote: post #136
Cushman wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just think there's another way to look at this situation. Have you seen The Incredibles? The scene towards the beginning when Mr. Incredible helps the little old lady cheat the insurance system? I think most bureaucrats want to be that person. They want to give the good guy a break; they want to cut people who try hard a little bit of slack. It means more work for them, since they need to spend their own time to ma…

Being nice to a beaurocrat is stupid. Appear to be nice or even charming is one thing but always be willing to throw them under the bus once you are done with them. And never make excuses for them online in a hackers forum.

Live your life however you want, but that sounds shitty to me.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#148

Post by snowwrestler »

jlgreco wrote: post #125
snowwrestler wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think you understand the score, but to me it seems more like a persecution complex. The irony is that in Arrington's situation the border agent tried to educate Mike that this was a rule that could be safely bent in the interest of expedience, but it was Mike himself who insisted on perfect procedure.

If you are dealing with the burrito vendor outside your office and keep it straight business ( "super burrito, with steak" ), perhaps because it has been a long day and you are tired as hell, there is no retribution. The quality of your burrito service is not compromised just because you failed to be his 5 minute friend that day. Why? Maybe the burrito vendor understands customer service, maybe because the burrito ve…

I've never been hassled by cops, DMV workers, or private security guards. In fact two years ago I screwed up car registration paperwork and a DMV worker was invaluable in helping me get it sorted out efficiently.

Am I somehow special? I doubt it. Maybe I don't have problems with government employees because I approach those situations with positive expectations and I try to be nice to people.

Maybe I do that because I actually know a few people in customer-facing government roles and they are no more entitled or abusive that anyone else I know.

I can tell you though that from their perspective, abuse is a frequent occurence--usually from folks who walk through the door with a sense of persecution. A lot of people view anyone behind a government desk as fair game, since, after all, everyone knows the government is out to get us.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#150

Post by pzxc »

Cushman wrote: post #147
tomjen3 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being nice to a beaurocrat is stupid. Appear to be nice or even charming is one thing but always be willing to throw them under the bus once you are done with them. And never make excuses for them online in a hackers forum.

Live your life however you want, but that sounds shitty to me.

It sounds pragmatic to me.

It takes someone very naive to be rude to a cop or other government official, knowing how miserable they can make your life with very little effort.

It takes someone even more naive to genuinely care about someone who would be willing to use frivolously the power to make your life miserable.

There are "good" cops and government officials, but they are the minority. When you encounter a random one, you don't know which kind they are, and by the time you find out it's too late.

Pretending to be nice, in this context, doesn't seem shitty to me, it seems like the ONLY course of action a reasonable person can take. And thus it's my MO when dealing with cops or other government employees.

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