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OpenAI Losses Increased Nearly 8X in 2025, with Spending Hitting $34B

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Re: OpenAI Losses Increased Nearly 8X in 2025, with Spending Hitting $34B

#231

Seeing that R&D costs are the lion's share, I wonder if we are at a point where the focus can shift to improving the cost of inference. Unless we are genuinely pushing to find AGI, at which point nothing matters, LLMs in their current form don't replace knowledge workers but are an effective force multiplier. How good is enough? For instance, I pay about $1-2 a month for DeepSeek. It's not as sophisticated as Claude,…

> I wonder if we are at a point where the focus can shift to improving the cost of inference.

There's always working on improving the cost of inference, but I don't think this is an area of R&D that will slow down. The reason is:

1. A better competitor model risks eating away at how much they can charge for inference (i.e. revenue) 2. Whoever unlocks AGI will unlock even more growth 3. Even when you unlock AGI, you'll want to throw gobs of money at it to improve itself and all sorts of things.

> If Fable comes out and demands 50x the price of DeepSeek in order for Anthropic to make a profit on it, how much more productive would I be compared to my personal experience + DeepSeek? 3x? 50x?

You're pricing it wrong and looking at it wrong. First, the per token price doesn't consider that a smarter model can end up using fewer tokens overall to achieve a result. Secondly, if the difference is between failing to accomplish the task and accomplishing the task, suddenly that 50x can seem like a bargain.

> Is it cost effective for a business to hire someone without SWE experience + Fable verses hiring someone with SWE experience and DeepSeek? When does R&D hit diminishing returns?

At this time, someone without SWE experience + vs someone good with SWE experience and is a no-brainer. The AI model is an accelerant but the "no SWE experience" will be accelerated into a wall. Now maybe that doesn't matter for prototyping and certain other things, but anything in production the lack of experience will hurt them with things they won't even know about or even know how to look for it (e.g. slow, insecure, etc).

Re: OpenAI Losses Increased Nearly 8X in 2025, with Spending Hitting $34B

#232
post #175

”The company reports over 900 million weekly active users of ChatGPT, though only about 50 million of those are paid subscribers.” With so many free models available the ai companies are going to struggle to convert active free users to paid.

None of the free models offer anything even remotely close to the output you can get on a relatively inexpensive model. I think that AI is going to become just another utility people pay to stay relevant. Same as their internet, electricity or gas.

> another utility people pay to stay relevant

I'm guessing that might be so in certain professions, but I would expect the employer to pay for that. For the rest of us, it seems unlikely. At least for me, I don't have a need of a device to generate text for me. And I bet most people are are in the same boat as me.

Re: OpenAI Losses Increased Nearly 8X in 2025, with Spending Hitting $34B

#233
post #117

I'm really curious about something: how far will you go to support AI? Clearly they'll need to monetize things further, would you still use [whatever AI you are paying for] if the price was doubled? Tripled? Where would you stop and would you stop using AI altogether or would you look at competitors?

I don’t think there’s a single person out there that will ‘support’ AI

Maybe it’s just your phrasing but people will only pay for what works, no one is loony enough to support a trillion dollar industry out of the kindness of their heart or spirit of innovation

Re: OpenAI Losses Increased Nearly 8X in 2025, with Spending Hitting $34B

#234
Pardon my French, but yeah, no shit?

AI companies are black holes for money the way delivery companies are (or were, considering the money people are willing to pay these days).

Most of them will disappear alongside the money people have bet on them.

Re: OpenAI Losses Increased Nearly 8X in 2025, with Spending Hitting $34B

#235
post #124
post #117

I'm really curious about something: how far will you go to support AI? Clearly they'll need to monetize things further, would you still use [whatever AI you are paying for] if the price was doubled? Tripled? Where would you stop and would you stop using AI altogether or would you look at competitors?

I’d easily pay multiple hundreds. Possibly a thousand a month. If I were really forced to. LLMs provide me about the same value as a car does.

What in the world are you working on?

Re: OpenAI Losses Increased Nearly 8X in 2025, with Spending Hitting $34B

#237
post #150

My takeaway from this is that it's incredibly validating as a business model. Inference is _highly_ profitable. Of course, like any company that has ever tried to grow at breakneck pace, you run at a loss until you "win."

Isn't this what all of the big companies that spend a lot on R&D and engineers promise?

And then the reality turns out not to be the case - you have to continuously spend on R&D to avoid getting your lunch eaten by someone else.

This isn't a social media network with lockin either. People can and will just switch to whatever whenever they feel like it. Maybe it becomes a defacto standard like google but if someone is much better than you, well...

Re: OpenAI Losses Increased Nearly 8X in 2025, with Spending Hitting $34B

#238
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d easily pay multiple hundreds. Possibly a thousand a month. If I were really forced to. LLMs provide me about the same value as a car does.

What in the world are you working on?

I’m honestly just thinking about day to day utility in my personal life.

Re: OpenAI Losses Increased Nearly 8X in 2025, with Spending Hitting $34B

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just a matter of finding 5 billion people willing to pay US prices This is how you know ads are inevitable. YouTube is probably a good indicator of how BigLabs will operate for free users.

I'd be cool with that. YouTube premium is one of the best value subscriptions I have. Steering people toward paying instead of ads-by-default is a net good imo

I think we can all understand the ways in which embedded advertisement in LLMs will be fundamentally different than view-based advertisement.
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