Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

blog.davidedmundson.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 392 posts

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#231

Post by mcosta »

tosti wrote: post #38
mug1 wrote: post #10

I do like how the wayland usage statistic are based on wayland apps crashing more than x11 apps

Linux users are more likely not to opt-in and actively opt-out of spyware, telemetry, or whatever you want to call it. The ones that don't are more likely those who leave things on defaults, are involved with the project or a distro, or similar. No, I don't have anything that backs this up. The statistics they're using can never be accurate, by virtue of being free software that ships on privacy concious distros to p…

privacy concious people use wayland

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#232

Post by solumunus »

throwawee wrote: post #84
alyandon wrote: post #12

I empathize but every time I try a Wayland based desktop I always end up encountering weird bugs and corner cases with basic usability that drive me back to X11. I'll be sad if that is still the case when 6.8 rolls around as then I'll be hunting for another DE.

I recommend XFCE. I used both for years and in my experience it's like KDE but stable.

Still no support for high resolution monitors though?

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#233

Post by account42 »

amlib wrote: post #158
cwillu wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Screentearing has been solved on x11 for a decade; if nvidia don't support TearFree in the driver, that's an nvidia issue, not an X11 issue.

Until you connect a second monitor.

Nope, no tearing here with multiple monitors.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#234

Post by account42 »

suby wrote: post #46

I read this yesterday wanted to raise awareness for it - https://nocoffei.com/?p=451 It describes the regression in accessibility software for Linux from x11 to Wayland. Unfortunately, judging by the pace of protocols being accepted, I think we're years out from having a solution. The most notable thing not working is Talon, which is a voice input system that lets you insert speech to text, manipulate windows, call s…

It's not just accessibility software but really any customization. Like always the people making the decision to break compatibility and benefiting by being able to work on the cool new thing don't even pay a fraction of the pain inflicted by it.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#235

Post by account42 »

bsder wrote: post #187
pseudalopex wrote: post #103

Plasma/Wayland Known Significant Issues[1] No ability to save and restore positions of native Wayland windows Real-fake-session-restored apps don't remember which virtual desktop their windows were on No full-screen aspect ratio correction "Spare Layouts" feature not implemented "Per-application Keyboard Layout" does not work No way to change the gamma or manually adjust the colors without generating or finding an ap…

Pointer warp not generally supported so CAD programs fail in bizarre ways. Although I think that there is FINALLY an actual spec for pointer warp. However, very few compositors support it.

The story of Wayland - restrict what applications can do in the name of "security" only to re-add the same thing in a compositor-specific way after years of pain inflicted on everyone. Wayland is fundamentally designed for the smartphone model and has no place on an open desktop.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#236

Post by ahartmetz »

chlorion wrote: post #185
josephcsible wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're similar in that they're both new things that are worse than what they're meant to replace.

They are actually both much better than the things they replace, but a bunch of whiner babies can't stand the thought of anything changing and will claw and scream while being dragged into the future.

Systemd-resolvd is a bad DNS resolver and journalctl makes logging needlessly complicated and log files slow to read. Also, socket activation is basically xinetd and we got rid of it because it's a brittle hack, also slower than starting stuff as soon as possible if you actually need it.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#237

Post by extraduder_ire »

ndiddy wrote: post #37
senfiaj wrote: post #8

What's sad is that after many years Wayland still lacks several things/features that X11 has/allows. Some of them are intentionally not implemented because of security paranoia. For example, Chrome "picture in picture" window doesn't stay on top when I click somewhere else since Wayland doesn't allow windows to stay on top. If I had a lot of time I could list how Wayland breaks many applications. Not saying that X11…

If you use KDE, you can work around this because of the powerful feature set the window manager has for setting custom window behavior. 1. Right click the PIP window and then click "More Actions-> Special Window Settings". 2. On the window that pops up, click "Add Property", and add "Window title". Change the drop-down from "Unimportant" to "Exact match" (this works on Firefox because the window title is always "Pict…

One difference I notice in x11 gnome vs wayland gnome is firefox's PIP window is always on top on x11 even if I deselect "Always on top" (super + right click menu) in wayland that works fine and is even always on top by default.

I much prefer the latter, especially since I get the choice.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#239

Post by qweqwe14 »

lionkor wrote: post #215
drnick1 wrote: post #148

Sadly, recent GNOME versions introduced a hard dependency on systemd and can no longer be used on systemd-free distros. This is the kind of problem that the anti-systemd people had in mind back then when debates about systemd raged.

I'm sorry, but are we still going on about this? I love a good debate as much as the next guy, but being able to just have one interface (systemd's) for all services and having a more-or-less consistent language really helps. At this point, it's simply a bit too late. I'm sure in the early days it was still a choice, but when you want prepackaged things, you get systemd.

It's Linux bro, we absolutely need to have 500 different options for every single thing. Doesn't matter if every option sucks, diversity is above everything! /s

There are some truly special people among Linux users that think diversity in init systems/libc implementations/etc is a good thing for a general-purpose desktop. They don't understand that people just want stuff to work, and developers don't want to support more than 1 init system (or other trivial thing) for their package.

Success of Linux on the desktop is fundamentally incompatible with diversity, but unfortunately not everyone gets that.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#240

Post by qweqwe14 »

bluGill wrote: post #43

The only downside is several of the *BSDs don't have wayland. Not all the world is linux and sometimes that is a good thing to encourage.

You wouldn't pick BSDs for a desktop anyway, assuming you want a working system and don't want to use Windows/macOS.

Now the concept of a "working system" can be a bit hard to grasp for some people, so let me put it this way: There are vastly more things that normal people do on their computer that work on Linux than on BSDs.

Post reply on HN