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Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

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Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#171

Post by gmueckl »

porridgeraisin wrote: post #121
pseudalopex wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The application could tell the window manager it wanted an always on top window. The window manager could ask the user if it should allow or reject and remember for this application or not.

That's exactly what I said... and also not how wayland works. I cannot comprehend the way wayland folks think... quote from the xdg-pip discussion: > To not make PiP windows effectively "always on top" and "on every workspace" dialogs - a terrible and sadly by applications used concept on X11 - PiP windows must be input-only, i.e. not receive keyboard, pointer and touch input Like what the heck even? That is how pip…

I also don't get it with the wayland people. It feels like they want to revert everything to a UX design that was getting old in the 90s.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#172

Post by wizzledonker »

Postosuchus wrote: post #95

As someone who shipped my fair share of critical production features, I find this plan raising my eyebrows somewhat. Disabling a feature AND simultaneously removing the codebase for that feature almost never ends well. There will always be some use cases that people haven't thought of. In serious projects (read, your career is at stake) a much better strategy is to first make the feature unavailable by normal means w…

That is quite literally exactly what they have done

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#173

Post by killerstorm »

senfiaj wrote: post #8

What's sad is that after many years Wayland still lacks several things/features that X11 has/allows. Some of them are intentionally not implemented because of security paranoia. For example, Chrome "picture in picture" window doesn't stay on top when I click somewhere else since Wayland doesn't allow windows to stay on top. If I had a lot of time I could list how Wayland breaks many applications. Not saying that X11…

There is some resource leak in Chrome / Wayland combo, I mysteriously run out of memory after few days of keeping several Chrome windows. On X11 Chrome can keep going pretty much indefinitely

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#174

Post by calvinmorrison »

pmdr wrote: post #143
calvinmorrison wrote: post #6

Trinity Desktop supports X11. If you liked KDE3.5 you might like Trinity. Good bye KDE. Good bye Red Hat. We're doin our own thang now.

KDE 3.5.x really was peak desktop at the time, especially when all the K* apps were working as intended. As a Windows user discovering Slackware 10.2 back 2005, I was really blown away. KDE 4 just didn't feel the same.

One thing in watching the 30 years of KDE talk is the DE-emphasis on apps. The whole thing got to big so it went from SC4 or whaetver into different strains. Modularized, etc. About then serious desktop apps seemed to have died off too

I guess one cares less about DE's when my DE is a front for a terminal and a VM (my browser).

It's sad to see sidelining of KOffice, Konqueror (of course still exists), Amarok and other great apps.

A desktop environemnt is not just a WM + Panel + Decorations.

KDE3.5x has is own... well everything tied together.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#175

Post by HDBaseT »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #112
mvdtnz wrote: post #82

I can't be the only long time Linux use who still has no real idea what X11 or Wayland are. Except that sometimes software won't work properly with one or the other and I need to paste some arcane command to fix it.

It's what puts graphics on the screen. If you are not interested in hacking or developing it, there's not much else to know except X11 is deprecated and Wayland is not finished, leading to this suboptimal situation.

Yep and Xwayland is an X server that runs under Wayland and provides compatibility for native X11 applications, which don't natively run under Wayland.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#176

Post by foresto »

senfiaj wrote: post #8

What's sad is that after many years Wayland still lacks several things/features that X11 has/allows. Some of them are intentionally not implemented because of security paranoia. For example, Chrome "picture in picture" window doesn't stay on top when I click somewhere else since Wayland doesn't allow windows to stay on top. If I had a lot of time I could list how Wayland breaks many applications. Not saying that X11…

My Wayland pet peeve:

It still lacks keyboard LED control, so unprivileged X11 programs that use the Scroll Lock light as an indicator cannot be ported to Wayland.

This Plasma change is going to be painful for me. I wonder if there's an up-to-date list of Wayland shortcomings.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#177

Post by j1elo »

bluGill wrote: post #40
skeledrew wrote: post #13

I've been using Kubuntu for the past 12 years without any X-related issue, and have and am actively working on stuff that requires it. I guess it's time to switch to another DE.

Most people are not you. A small minority do things that really need X. However there is good reason to say that the things that really need X are things you shouldn't do anyway. Meanwhile there is a slightly larger minority that need things that cannot be done in X. For the vast majority of people they cannot tell the difference, either works just fine. If there are issues they are tiny things they don't notice unti…

> the things that really need X are things you shouldn't do anyway.

I had just finished reading the link in the first post and, frankly, I'm grateful for.the insight it gives. I think we all should have more perspective than what we have around things that we take for granted. Wayland itself would be better if its own devs had done the same.

https://nocoffei.com/?p=451

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#178

Post by Joe_Cool »

fhars wrote: post #106
bityard wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I upgraded from Debian 12 to 13 on my personal laptop running KDE, I knew that the switch from X11 to Wayland would happen and was braced for all kinds of issues, like every other time I tried to switch to Wayland in previous years. Instead, I could tell literally no difference. Multiple desktops works fine, scaling works fine, screen capture works fine, old apps work fine, literally everything works just fine.…

On the other hand, I recently installed a system with debian 13, and it was really easy to distinguish between X11 and wayland sessions: if the session displays a plasma desktop, it's X11, if it crashes on login, it is wayland. YMMV if you try to switch to wayland.

You might have an older GPU that doesn't work with wayland like me. My Radeon HD5870 also won't do Vulkan and anything wayland has never worked properly for me.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#180

Post by M2Ys4U »

spider-mario wrote: post #102
MBCook wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a British spelling? Oops. Honestly my computer gave it a red underline so I decided to do that. I didn’t think about it harder than that. If I recognized it like “colour” I wouldn’t have.

It would be a good habit to check (for example on the Wiktionary – I have a Chrome search keyword dedicated to that) because those are not the only differences. fulfill vs. fulfil judgment vs. judgement disk vs. disc ( https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/disk#Usage_notes ) hiccup vs. hiccough diarrhea vs. diarrhoea

>judgment vs. judgement

In British English "judgment" without the 'e' is generally only used for talking about judicial rulings, whereas most other uses of the word contain the 'e'.

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