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Leave Me Behind

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Re: Leave Me Behind

#231

Post by Curosinono »

Its a lot more fun when you start playing around with finetuning different models, learning basic differences in their architecture and co.

You can experiment with different agent harnesses (pi, hermes, opencode, goose, ..) do experiemnets with gastown and paperclip ai.

I also get a lot of fun at experimenting with ideas i have and had were the focus is not the pure programming language but the application.

But i do think and we will see, as soon as there are clear winners of agentic platforms, we will finetune and adjust these agents.

Re: Leave Me Behind

#232

Post by castedo »

20k wrote: post #204
MarkSweep wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect you are right that LLM-generated software will likely negatively impact people's lives. The flip side of this is there is going to be a lot of software generated that would have never been possible before. And for some use cases, some crappy software is better than no software. I think it's hard to predict whether on net this will be a good or bad thing.

>And for some use cases, some crappy software is better than no software The best use case i've seen for AI is people generating random one shot projects for themselves, which is honestly so cool. You can make some basic app that does something very specific, that would have taken objectively a lot longer to make by hand. This is when 'crappy' software is more than good enough for a specific problem

Similar use cases of useful AI one-shot projects are: demos, proof-of-concept, prototype, exploratory tests, etc... I've AI-generated an HTML/javascript craplet to test how browser security would behave for certain JavaScript API calls. I just wanted to confirm how browser security would behave before I started to spend time hand-coding the non-AI quality software that I wanted to release.

And I say this as somebody who generally has a low opinion of AI generated code and rarely uses it. But it has its place.

Re: Leave Me Behind

#233

Post by jimmaswell »

nradov wrote: post #222
ary wrote: post #167

There are a number of comments here where people open up about their contrasting experiences of not being a part of a programming community. Those are well addressed, I think, but there is another point to consider. We need to remember the people, that we may never talk to, that are downstream of all of this software. Not necessarily “the users” as there are many pieces of software meant for other devs, but I think t…

Nah, there's no evidence of reduced quality. If anything it's the reverse. I've seen AI code review tools be tremendously effective at catching defects which otherwise would have shipped.

Same here, it's been catching a lot of bugs that would have been very hard to trace or discover, often just in the process of doing something else.

Re: Leave Me Behind

#234

Post by tomhow »

w4yai wrote: post #10
000ooo000 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you respond with 'main character syndrome' to everyone who shares an opinion?

[flagged]

Can you not post this style of sweeping rhetoric on HN? We're here for curious conversation, and comments like this are antithetical to that. Please take a moment to read the guidelines and make an effort to observe them when participating here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Leave Me Behind

#235

Post by wolvesechoes »

joe_mamba wrote: post #217
wolvesechoes wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thanks to industrialisation, automation and mass production, the poor of today have access to things that even kings from hundreds of years ago couldn't even fathom Thanks to colonialism, also in more modern form called globalism . > Kings back then would eat hard bread, shit down a vertical shaft that emitted the scent through the whole castle, and their sleeping chambers had ice on the walls in winter and lice in…

>Thanks to colonialism, also in more modern form called globalism. You don't have to participate in globalism, you can be a hermit state that doesn't trade with the evil imperial capitalists, like Cuba and North Korea. Everyone wants to live there because the QoL is so good.

And it so good, because west extracted wealth and materials from all around the world places, and still extracts through globalisation.

QoL is so good here precisely because it is so poor out there.

Re: Leave Me Behind

#236

Post by ethin »

miyoji wrote: post #202
Kuyawa wrote: post #196

For me it's incomprehensible how a tool that allows you to be 100 times more productive is derided as something we should never use for the sake of craftmanship. Same as shoemakers or horseback messengers 100 years ago. Those who fund the next Nike or FedEx will be the winners of this new race. AI is a tool, an exceptional tool for providing solutions.

"100 times more productive" is such a wild exaggeration. Do you understand that productivity is not equal to lines of code written? Yeah, AI can write many lines of code very quickly. Productivity is about making something economically valuable. Are you producing 100 times more value with AI than you were without AI? Is your business making 100 times more money? Are you being paid 100 times as much? The factories tha…

So so much this. Also: what does 100x even mean? What is the baseline? I can write a program in 5 minutes that will spit out 10 billion lines of code. As such, does that somehow mean I'm 1000000x more productive?

Re: Leave Me Behind

#237

Post by dmix »

dakiol wrote: post #179

The problem with (propietary AI) is that they (anthropic/google/openai/etc) gain more from the usage of AI than you. Other tools like postgres, gcc, git, HTTP, emacs, etc. don't "gain" anything if you use them (well, they gain popularity and perhaps more contributions, but that's it). The more you use Claude, the richer anthropic gets and the easier for them to position themselves in a place of power, power to domina…

There were lots of proprietary database companies in the 70s-90s when they first came out (Oracle, IBM, Sybase, SQL Server), but these days open source databases are the default. Everyone's making so many wild predictions based off the current state of LLMs. We don't know how the market will unfold.

Even in regards to programming competency and the culture of vibecoding, it's similar to the early stages of electric cars where they fill some roles better than ICE engines, but it's still a decade away from doing the same job. And the whole time there was people trashing electric cars as a novelty/impractical/expensive/dangerous/etc because the infrastructure wasn't there yet and the technology was immature.

The only real moat pattern we see is datacenters being hotly in demand but even those will scale up and commoditize, RAM manufacturing will catch up etc.

Re: Leave Me Behind

#238

Post by prerok »

unknownfuture wrote: post #205
ary wrote: post #167

There are a number of comments here where people open up about their contrasting experiences of not being a part of a programming community. Those are well addressed, I think, but there is another point to consider. We need to remember the people, that we may never talk to, that are downstream of all of this software. Not necessarily “the users” as there are many pieces of software meant for other devs, but I think t…

> Handing over software quality to the stochastic code extruder is causing a sharp drop in the quality of software put out into the world. I genuinely don't know if that's true and I doubt you do, either. It's all feels right now. What I do know is I run a couple of personal projects and I can say they are of objectively higher quality now that I'm using AI to build out proper CI pipelines, expand test coverage, prod…

Even if the jury is still out, I would still say you are both right already.

The amount of slop produced even in company setting is staggering and I don't like it one bit that neither the submitter nor the reviewer of the PR paid due dilligence. And I am only complaining because it then becomes my problem. So, then I have to start nagging people to clean that up. I can say with 100% certainty that the problems I face now would not have happened without LLMs.

That said, used with care, with proper supervision, with dilligence to review what LLMs did, I still think they can be and are beneficial.

I think that we are just not used to getting results of questionable quality from the tools we use. So, I am hopeful that we will learn and it will improve with time but still find myself dreading the age of the vibe coder.

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