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AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

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Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#231

Post by viccis »

slibhb wrote: post #53
viccis wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The same people that shout "Capitalism sucks, free us from our labor" are the exact same types that hate AI. The exact machine that will free you from your labor, when harnessed correctly, is the exact thing you hate. I think you fundamentally misunderstand leftists/Maxists here. They don't want to be "freed from labor". They want to own the value they produce instead of bartering their labor. In fact, Marxists tend…

Marx pretty clearly envisions a future society where necessary labor is reduced to a minimum due to technology. The fact that modern leftists are (often) anti-technology is puzzling.

Key there is future. I don't think he ever claimed such an automated communist utopia was the immediate progression after capitalism.

>The fact that modern leftists are (often) anti-technology is puzzling.

Not puzzling at all when the world has experience earth shattering advances in technology in the past 30-40 years, and the economic gains it has brought have not been reflected in similar reductions in labor for the workers. Why on earth would AI be any different than the cotton gin or the self checkout?

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#232

Post by jayd16 »

izend wrote: post #32
tptacek wrote: post #9

I'm glad this person found community, but I think they've been a bit starstruck by concentrated interest. At no point in the next 30 years will there not be an active community of people who "loathe" AI and work to obstruct it. There are those people about smart phones, the Internet itself, even television. Meanwhile: the ability to poison models, if it can be made to work reliably, is a genuinely interesting CS ques…

I would bet Chinese models will be much harder to poison and the fact the Chinese populace is much more pro-AI than the West.

Why?

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#233

Post by rockskon »

GaryBluto wrote: post #157
rockskon wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am so very tired of people who compare AI to smart phones or the Internet as large. There were never such wide scale and, above all, centralized efforts to coerce and shame people into using the Internet or smart phones in spite of their best efforts.

Nobody is "shaming" anybody into using AI but their jobs may require use of it. It's the same as all the secretaries who found themselves having to make the jump from the typewriter to the computer.

[flagged]

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#234

Post by viccis »

simianwords wrote: post #68
slibhb wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marx pretty clearly envisions a future society where necessary labor is reduced to a minimum due to technology. The fact that modern leftists are (often) anti-technology is puzzling.

Modern leftists are the modern conservatives. You can watch it happening - 40 years later you have people with grey hair and beards reminiscing their times when they coded by hand. They will absolutely be the most conservative voting block to exist -- they will continue opposing technology.

This works well if you equivocate the word "conservative" as "opposing technology". Otherwise, it's just a specious and bad faith attempt at an own.

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#235

Post by phainopepla2 »

xpe wrote: post #176
lolcatzlulz wrote: post #63

The easiest way to grow AI resistance is to get Dario Amodei and Sam Altman on TV and let them talk.

> The easiest way to grow AI resistance is to get Dario Amodei and Sam Altman on TV and let them talk. Tell me more? I'm guessing you might say: neither connects with everyday people, they have misaligned incentives*, they (like most corporate leaders) don't speak directly, they have more power than almost any elected leader in the world, ... Did I miss anything? My take: when it comes to character and goals and ther…

You're overthinking the parent comment, I think. When Dario goes on TV he says things like "AI is going to put 50% of white collar workers out of a job in a few years". The average TV viewer who hears that doesn't know what AI alignment means, they just hear that this guy, whatever his intentions, is threatening their ability to survive in this economy.

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#236

Post by lxgr »

lepus wrote: post #209
vidarh wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the ability to poison models, if it can be made to work reliably Ultimately, it comes down to the halting problem: If there's a mechanism that can be used to alter the measured behaviour, then the system can change behaviour to take into account the mechanism. In other words, unless you keep the poisoning attack strictly inaccessible to the public, the mechanism used to poison will also be possible to use to train…

It's a very comparable game of cat and mouse to spam email filtering. People also tried to claim that spam was over because for a time companies like Google cared enough to invest a lot in preventing as much as possible from getting through. If you've noticed in recent years the motivation to keep up that level of filtering has greatly diminished. Whether model poisoning becomes a bigger issue depends on the incentiv…

I feel like spam filtering has moved from statistical methods to pay-to-play: "These 10 large senders have a reasonable opt-out policy (on paper, we'll check any day now), so why would we filter anything they drop at our 25?"

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#237

Post by xantronix »

slibhb wrote: post #94
coldtea wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somebody hasen't been paying attention in the past 40 years, and especially the last 20.

Yeah, it's you. Real purchasing power is up over the past 20 years.

idk how impactful that is, you can't really live in a house made of shit bought from Temu

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#238

Post by tptacek »

rockskon wrote: post #140
tptacek wrote: post #9

I'm glad this person found community, but I think they've been a bit starstruck by concentrated interest. At no point in the next 30 years will there not be an active community of people who "loathe" AI and work to obstruct it. There are those people about smart phones, the Internet itself, even television. Meanwhile: the ability to poison models, if it can be made to work reliably, is a genuinely interesting CS ques…

I am so very tired of people who compare AI to smart phones or the Internet as large. There were never such wide scale and, above all, centralized efforts to coerce and shame people into using the Internet or smart phones in spite of their best efforts.

Oh, yeah, no, definitely super easy to have been a professional software developer over the last 20 years whilst conscientiously objecting from using the Internet.

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#239

Post by underlipton »

lxgr wrote: post #220
underlipton wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It becomes a bit easier to see when you finish the sentence. "Information wants to be free (from ______)." If you filled that blank in with "rent-seeking Capitalists and corporations," you likely have everything you need to understand why they don't see it as a turn. I say this as someone whose notions exist orthogonal to the debate; I use AI freely but also don't have any qualms about encouraging people to upend the…

Sure, with enough effort, you can find a seemingly clever way to turn almost every mantra into its semantic opposite.

It doesn't take much cleverness because we're talking about a straightforward dynamic. A counter-cultural expression that was a "screw you" aimed at corporations was co-opted and misinterpreted by those same corporations as "It's free real estate", and now the latter are flummoxed that they're not buddies with the former. Well, points up that's why.

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#240

Post by phainopepla2 »

kevinbojarski wrote: post #200
caesil wrote: post #95

The only thing more cringe than the seething anger in this blog is the technical illiteracy revealed by an earnest belief that any of these attempts at "poisoning" will have any negative impact whatsoever on model training.

I wouldn't be so confident that poisoning won't work. https://www.reddit.com/r/BrandNewSentence/comments/1so9wf1/c...

LLM poisoning is about getting bad data into the training set. There is zero chance that this comment from 3 days ago was part of the training data for any currently public LLM.

Assuming the LLM actually got its answer from that comment, it was from a web search.

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