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End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

patrick-breyer.de

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Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#231

Post by vaylian »

moffkalast wrote: post #212
vaylian wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It had already passed and started? Facebook and others have been scanning your private messages for many years already. Then someone discovered that this practice is illegal in Europe. So they passed the temporary chat control 1.0 emergency law to make it legal. The plan was to draft a chat control 2.0 law that would then be the long-term solution. But negotiations took too long and the temporary law will expire on…

I take it facebook/meta paid no fines for doing it illegally in the first place?

You could probably have sued them. I'm not aware of any cases where that happened.

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#232

Post by lpcvoid »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #229
nickslaughter02 wrote: post #3

> Despite today’s victory, further procedural steps by EU governments cannot be completely ruled out. Most of all, the trilogue negotiations on a permanent child protection regulation (Chat Control 2.0) are continuing under severe time pressure. There, too, EU governments continue to insist on their demand for “voluntary” indiscriminate Chat Control. > Furthermore, the next massive threat to digital civil liberties i…

> further procedural steps by EU governments cannot be completely ruled out In a democracy, we don't kill our opposition. If they hold views we don't like, e.g. that security trumps privacy, they're going to litigate them. Probably their whole lives. That means they'll keep bringing up the same ideas. And you'll have to keep defeating them. But there are two corollaries. One: Passing legislation takes as much work as…

Great comment, thank you. I know that I could simply upvote, but this deserved more.

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#234

Post by hkpack »

someguyornotidk wrote: post #226

The fact that they could pull a stunt like this shows that the EU is no democracy. Shame on the politicians who tried to rob people of their rights.

How have you came to such conclusions?

If anything it proves the opposite.

Look at how laws are passed in russia for example for comparison and let me know what similarities you see.

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#235

Post by JumpCrisscross »

heavyset_go wrote: post #210
miohtama wrote: post #106

Here is the EPP's plea to get this passed earlier. They even used a teddy bear image. https://www.eppgroup.eu/newsroom/epp-urges-support-for-last-... "Protecting children is not optional," said Lena Düpont MEP, EPP Group spokeswoman on Legal and Home Affairs. "We call on the S&D Group to stop hiding behind excuses and finally take responsibility. We cannot afford a safe haven for child abusers online. Every delay lea…

> - Thorn (Ashton Kutcher) They really have no shame, do they? https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-66772846 Kutcher defended a rapist in court when they thought they were anonymous (they weren't), the same rapist who bragged about assaulting their underage peer/co-star to Kutcher, and then harassed the children of the plaintiffs[1] in his trial where he was convicted and sentenced to 30 years to life: > Anoth…

Kutcher's VC (Quiet) is deeply invested in the surveillance economy [1].

[1] https://quiet.com/portfolio/?portfolio_type=all

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#236

Post by amarant »

I feel like someone ought to dramatise this seemingly endless struggle in a seemingly endless series of movies.

-The Spying Menace

-Attack of the conservatives

-Revenge of the marketing conglomerate

-A new hope

-Chat Control strikes back

-Return of the Pirate Party

Etc,etc.

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#237

Post by JumpCrisscross »

dmitrygr wrote: post #202
krapp wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be antithetical to democracy. The people must be allowed to introduce any legislation they want, as often as they want. Otherwise it would be trivial for a government to intentionally fail to pass anything they disagree with, and thus act as a de facto dictatorship.

When have "the people" been last consulted on this? Do you really think Chat Control has high public support? Given how most "democracies" work in our world today (which is to say with no consultation of the people), i think limiting their ability to do further harm might be worth it.

> Do you really think Chat Control has high public support?

Yes, I can absolutely see a majority in certain countries (e.g. Hungary) believing this is a fair compromise between security and privacy.

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#238

Post by bramhaag »

miohtama wrote: post #106

Here is the EPP's plea to get this passed earlier. They even used a teddy bear image. https://www.eppgroup.eu/newsroom/epp-urges-support-for-last-... "Protecting children is not optional," said Lena Düpont MEP, EPP Group spokeswoman on Legal and Home Affairs. "We call on the S&D Group to stop hiding behind excuses and finally take responsibility. We cannot afford a safe haven for child abusers online. Every delay lea…

They wrote a follow-up article, "Socialists are responsible for leaving children unprotected", which is somehow even more unhinged.

https://www.eppgroup.eu/newsroom/socialists-are-responsible-...

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#239

Post by JumpCrisscross »

bramhaag wrote: post #238
miohtama wrote: post #106

Here is the EPP's plea to get this passed earlier. They even used a teddy bear image. https://www.eppgroup.eu/newsroom/epp-urges-support-for-last-... "Protecting children is not optional," said Lena Düpont MEP, EPP Group spokeswoman on Legal and Home Affairs. "We call on the S&D Group to stop hiding behind excuses and finally take responsibility. We cannot afford a safe haven for child abusers online. Every delay lea…

They wrote a follow-up article, "Socialists are responsible for leaving children unprotected", which is somehow even more unhinged. https://www.eppgroup.eu/newsroom/socialists-are-responsible-...

This is messaging to the base. Mud slinging designed to hold the coalition together for another round.

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#240

Post by orwin »

moffkalast wrote: post #213
ryandrake wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the problem with modern democracies (it happens in the USA too). They only have to win once and it's law. We have to win every time.

It's a problem when the parliament can't propose the laws it has to vote on and the commission isn't elected and continues to be presided by the most corrupt person in the EU. She is blatantly EPP and just keeps proposing the shit they want. For Americans, imagine if only Republicans ever got to propose legislation and only Democrats could vote on it. That's more or less it.

I honestly like the system as long as its reach is limited and it's stay this way (i.e EU regulations set goals, and states do what they want to reach it). The money lobbyists throw is huge, for very, very little progress.
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