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Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

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Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#231
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm saying if you were a very vocal pro-Hamas activist "Pro hamas activist" has become the calling card of deeply committed western and israeli islamophobes. Much like their close cousins, the holocaust denying anti semite, they almost universally refuse to recognize the UN recognized genocide in gaza. >That crowd only seems to care if they can actively oppose Israel or the current administration Im sure if the curr…

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How would releasing the prisoners stop the settlers and other issues?

What Israel has been doing for decades at this point is completely unacceptable. Hamas is a bunch of terrorists, but in context they are the inevitable outcome of Israel's continuous mistreatment and ongoing antagonism against all of their neighbors stretching on for fifty years.

You really have to wonder what the hell is wrong with the Israelis that they can't stop being aggressive towards literally everyone around them.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#232
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So there are no circumstances where armed rebellion is justifiable and the only legitimate type of resistance to state violence is literally trying to drown the state forces in bodies of non-violent protestors? At a certain point there ceases to be a middle path between violent resistance and complete surrender. > Protesters which foreign states (China or Russia) This type of relativism is dishonest. Of course US is…

Uh, sorry, no. At the moment you start arguing by 'The Iranian regime is objectively evil, period', you have totally lost the plot. The statement 'The USA regime is objectively evil, period' is much more justifiable. Measured, e.g. by the number of people it has killed (both directly, and indirectly by sanctions and support for brutal dictators - e.g. Pinochet, but also Saddam while he was waging war with Iran). Medd…

The US is evil because it meddles in the affairs of other countries? Uh huh. Tell me about Iran.

The US is evil because of who it supports? Tell me about Iran.

And at least the US didn't murder thousands of anti-government demonstrators so far this year.

You're right in this: The US is not the shining example of goodness and purity that we wish it to be. But when you condemn the US compared to Iran, using those metrics, it looks suspiciously like motivated reasoning.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you're referring to Syria, not Iran. And I don't think you're describing the situation accurately at all. The Syrian civil war is incredibly complex, and there are many parties involved. The groups that led the offensive were supported by Turkey at various points, but not by the United States. US forces in Syria didn't really have much to do with that offensive.

Read a bit more about the fall of shah in Iran. At that time, there were two strong anti-shah factions in Iran. Islamists and communists. Guess which one was helped by USA? :-)

> Islamists and communists. Guess which one was helped by USA? :-)

Neither was helped by the USA. The Shah was helped by the USA.

What the USA did is the same thing it does in all of the Islamic dictatorships that it props up - it used its intelligence and its cash to help its dictator exterminate all of his secular opposition. Actually kill. What was left was religious fundamentalist opposition that it couldn't touch, and that the Shah himself partially relied on to stay in power. That meant that when the general population was finally at the point of exasperation, the only institutions that were 1) prepared to be the vehicle of that exasperation and 2) had an government in waiting that could take charge after the government had fallen were the religious ones.

Same thing that happened in Egypt after decades of helping Mubarak kill members of the secular opposition and destroy their organizations. When the government was overthrown spontaneously by a public driven to their limit, the only people prepared to take over, and supported by the public, were fundamentalists. The US saw another Iran coming and quickly stepped in to destroy the popular will and install another dictator that they could control.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#234
post #147
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That crowd only seems to care if they can actively oppose Israel or the current administration Can you think of any motivating reasons for the crowd to focus on Israel specifically? Last I checked, the American government isn't sending billions of dollars of weaponry and political cover to the Iranian government, so that is one massive reason why protesting Israel makes more sense. >have not made a peep about the th…

> ...disturbed that all my friends who posted non-stop about supporting Palestine... > I'm saying if you were a very vocal pro-Hamas... See how quickly things have turned from the first post manufactured to seem reasonable? No more "Curious" and "just asking questions". How many pro-Hamas friends can a person have?! I don't know a single pro-Hamas person myself. I believe you are being taken for a ride friend.

That's projection. Because it is nearly impossible in practice split support as you claim you are. HAMAS is the government in Gaza. They intercept any and all aid that isn't administered directly to Palestinians. Also the questionable version of the history of the region that you have to believe (or be completely ignorant of the history) to support the Palestinians is entirely a HAMAS narrative. If you actually knew the history, you would know that while all Palestinians moved to the Levant voluntarily in the last 150 years, most of the Jews in Israel were moved by force by Muslims. If Palestinians were upset by lots of Jews in the Levant, they should be mad at other Muslims countries as they were the ones who moved most Jews there.

You just make these claims to avoid any accountability of your actions. That tracks because the HAMAS narratives completely do the same, so its easier for you to accept.

PS Most of the videos that swayed you were AI generated.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> interpretation reeks of Western naivete The author is "an ancient and military historian who currently teaches as a Teaching Assistant Professor at North Carolina State University" [1]. > Students were not merely arrested — they were gunned down en masse in the streets and even in hospitals Non-violent doesn't mean peaceful. People died in our Civil Rights protests. People died in the Indian independence and the Ph…

This article is on my to-read list and I am a great fan of Mr. Devereaux's work. But I also feel like promoting non-violence outside the context of western democracies is misleading and potentially dangerous. Maybe he addresses it somewhere in the article but I have yet to read it so forgive me if he does. But how does he explain the failure of peaceful revolutions in Belarus or China? My understanding of social dyna…

> feel like promoting non-violence outside the context of western democracies is misleading and potentially dangerous

The article discusses "efforts, in a sense, directed against the state itself, both violent approaches (what we might call ‘terroristic insurgency’) and non-violent approaches (protest)" (Id.).

> Maybe he addresses it somewhere in the article but I have yet to read it

"The ‘center of gravity’ – the locus of the most important strategic objective – for most insurgencies thus often becomes the political support that sustains a government, be that a body of key supporters in non-democratic regimes or the voters in democratic ones. That body of key voters or supporters, of course, is often not even located in the theater of operations at all: the Taliban ultimately won their insurgency in Afghanistan because they persuaded American voters that the war was no longer worth the cost, leading to the election of leaders promising to pull the plug on the war" (Id.).

> how does he explain the failure of peaceful revolutions in Belarus or China?

"All that said, there are very obviously regimes in the world that have rendered themselves more-or-less immune to non-violent protest. This isn’t really the place to talk about the broader concept of ‘coup proofing’ and how authoritarian regimes secure internal security, repression and legitimacy in detail. But a certain kind of regime operates effectively as a society-within-a-society, with an armed subset of the population as insiders who receive benefits in status and wealth from the regime in return for their willingness to do violence to maintain it. Such regimes are generally all too willing to gun down thousands or tens of thousands of protestors to maintain power.

The late Assad regime in Syria stands as a clear example of this, as evidently does the current regime in Iran. Such regimes are not immune to an ‘attack on will,’ but they have substantially insulated themselves from it and resistance to these regimes, if it continues, often metastasizes into insurgency or protracted war (as with the above example of Syria) because the pressure has nowhere else to go" (Id.).

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#236
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that the actions of the Iranian regime doesn’t affect western nations is like being in a burning building, saying that the fire in the floors below doesn’t affect you.

Iran is totally and completely irrelevant to the lives of the vast majority of people in the West.

The country that’s a pillar of the Russo-Chinese axis, which controls vast amounts of oil, which can cripple a shipping channel that moves 20% of the worlds natural gas, which supplies high end drones to Russia and North Korean, which funds terrorist faction across the entire Middle East (that closed the Red Sea shipping lane), which operates terrorist cells in Europe.

That Iran is irrelevant?

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US just helped overthrow, with US troops on the ground, a secular government in Syria, to replace it with an al Qaeda leader who was on the US wanted terrorist list until two months ago. What are you talking about, the US has supported Islamic fundamentalists for decades.

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You don't know that the current, US supported leader of Syria is an Islamic fundamentalist Al Qaeda terrorist who it previously had a massive bounty on the death of?

Turns out, however, that he really enjoys money. And that the US has a lot of it.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#238

Sorry about the whataboutery but it's "funny" how chaos in non Western-allied countries gets so much coverage, even when it doesn't affect us, but shit like the people of France's New Caledonia trying to get independence doesn't: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6S1AFh88PE I didn't even know about that, just that it was a beautiful place and looked it up one day to fantasize about a potential future vacation, and saw…

You know Venezuela, Iran, Kuba. I wonder what all these countries that western Media tells us have "oppressive regimes" have in common. Funny how they all have spoken out against the genocide in Gaza. One would think that would be the link on why they are targeted. Maybe the problem is not humanitarian but that they are opposing US imperialism? Just like all the times before. You know when Iraq was preparing weapons…

Don’t worry, Gaza also has an oppressive regime.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#239
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economic collapse, failed infrastructure, lack of human rights, ruthless religious dictatorship? All while spending 25% of their budget on military ventures. Just to name a few.

The economic suffering has largely been inflicted deliberately by US sanctions. This would seem to suggest that sinking an aircraft carrier and frigate or two would actually be justified according to your principles?

>The economic suffering has largely been inflicted deliberately by US sanctions.

I dunno. Is the United States required to bake them a cake if it offends our religious principles?

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything it feels more surprising that the foreign protests aren't getting more coverage. They've been huge, it seems.

Inside Iran the message is similar: get Donald Trump’s attention. And the stated goal of the action is to reinstall the Shah as the head of a caretaker government who pinky swear promises to let the people choose how they want to be governed. This is problematic for civic minded Westerners for obvious reasons.

There is no organized political opposition inside of Iran for obvious reasons. That's the biggest problem here.
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