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Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts

nytimes.com

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Re: Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts

#231

Post by monocasa »

throwawayq3423 wrote: post #109
monocasa wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, those sensitive secrets included secret, unconstitutional, dragnet surveillance programs targeting american citizens, and the fact that the director of national intelligence had perjured himself during congressional hearings on those programs.

Less than 1% of what Snowden took and leaked pertained to domestic surveillance programs, The rest was intelligence capabilities and sources and methods. But that's besides the point. There is a real argument that the U.S. government, in trying to catch Snowden, was protecting national security. There is no such argument with Trump.

If Snowden hasn't moved quickly, he wouldn't have been able to leak any of it.

What he did, grab it all, then give it to reputable journalists, was the correct option to be able to inform the public of massive intelligence dragnets targeting civilians that the government was lying about.

Re: Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts

#232

Post by beej71 »

softwaredoug wrote: post #39

Basically they are issuing (administrative) subpoenas. When they go to court (at the expense of the account holder) they back down so they don't get ruled against / told to stop issuing these subpoenas. Noted in the article, when this happened in 2017 twitter denied the governments request. Now Meta, etc are rolling over for the government.

> Now Meta, etc are rolling over for the government.

It is, after all, currently the best way to improve the bottom line.

Re: Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts

#233

Post by johnnyanmac »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #173
dymk wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a whole bunch of “both sides!!” This ain’t the same

Yeah? Because you can't just flip flop on these things once you open the can of worms, the next administration has the same toy box you leave behind.

>you can't just flip flop on these things once you open the can of worms

You sort of can when one is done illegally to begin with. While I don't like the Snowden overreach it was done through proper legal channels.

The discussion there should be focused on a judge giving too much leeway in their subpeona, not that this is the same was what's happening now.

Re: Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts

#234

Post by johnnyanmac »

salawat wrote: post #92
throwawayq3423 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good faith by the federal government can no longer be assumed. Donald Trump's real legacy is not any single action, but a complete inversion of trust of the US government by its citizens. And the world.

When Europeans wonder why the U.S. is so backwards and barbaric about not implementing a National ID scheme. Look no further, ladies and gents, because at least once every 200 years, the population has a day of supreme brain off and puts someone like Trump in office. Once that happens, you too will appreciate why it should be hard for the government to do things.

I'm American. I'm not against national ID.

The issue is with the US is that ID is not free. I just had to pay 50 bucks to renew my driver's license. renewing a passport was 150 dollars the last time I checked (which was 2021). So any more costs just to function in society is a major impact to quite a few rights. The most hot topic being voter eligibility.

this is foreign to EU because, to my knowledge, getting an ID is free.

Re: Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts

#235

Post by esseph »

throwawayq3423 wrote: post #208
esseph wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> was protecting national security No, it was retribution. The info was already out there when they were going after him. Even if he stayed in the US and was captured, it still wouldn't have "stopped" anything.

> The info was already out there when they were going after him. This was of course not known at the time. The only thing that was known is that a single individual was responsible for the greatest breach of classified secrets in the nation's history, and that individual was still at large. > was protecting national security So yes, it was.

The federal government was found violating the constitution, and yet he's the bad guy.

Nonsense.

Re: Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts

#236

Post by jimbo808 »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #54

I'm old enough to remember that time the Obama administration requested Edward Snowdens private SSL keys from Lavabit, because it would have opened up every email from every single user. So the owner nuked everything and was held in contempt of court. He was forbidden from talking about it for months too. Don't give too much unprecedented power to the government. It doesn't matter who the president is. They've all do…

> until it's too late.

I'm afraid it's far too late.

Re: Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts

#237

Post by culi »

PearlRiver wrote: post #153
Aeolun wrote: post #73

I just recently played “The Last of Us” for the first time, and I feel like the US is going full steam ahead towards establishing that FEDRA service they had. Or at least, turn ICE/DHS into the same damn thing.

I played Deus Ex and the FEMA camps are now ICE camps. Empires do not fall with dignity or grace I suppose.

The ACLU released a report on these camps in August of 2024 called "Resistance, Retaliation, Repression: Two Years in California Immigration Detention".

Here's some of the issues it highlighted:

- forced labor in order to afford to eat. The $1/day "Voluntary Work Program" is the only way you're gonna get enough food to live. And if you refuse to work or try to protest, ICE doesn't have to give an excuse to send you into solitary confinement. CoreCivic sells this labor to companies

- extensive use of solitary confinement often for "minor disciplinary infractions or as a form of retaliation for participating in hunger strikes or for submitting complaints"

- dozens of documented deaths from forced labor and medical neglect

No doubt these issues have only gotten worse since the publication of this report.

https://www.aclunorcal.org/publications/resistance-retaliati...

Re: Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts

#238

Post by rayiner »

asveikau wrote: post #226
rayiner wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re comparing apples and oranges. These administrative warrants are very limited in scope. They are closer to the subpoenas that even ordinary civilian lawyers can send third parties in the course of litigation. They don’t give the government the power to bust into Google’s data center. The target has to respond or else challenge the warrant in court, but ordinary civilian subpoenas function the same way.

That's not at all what I've been hearing from reports of people getting these. They find that they're not at all targeted. They frequently don't even know who the target is. The officers get asked for a warrant and they might produce a bullshit piece of paper which is really just a memo. Anyway, it's not "me" comparing these alleged apples and oranges, I am replying deep in a thread of other people making these compa…

That’s the same as the subpoena I could send you if you had information relevant to a litigation. And you have to give it to me or else go to court to quash the subpoena. But the key difference with judicial warrants is that judicial warrants can be enforced immediately while subpoenas and administrative warrants require the cooperation of the target or else going to court to enforce the subpoena.

It’s weird but the legal system has an extremely broad view of when third parties can be forced to provide information relevant to litigation. Subpoenas date back to ancient Rome: https://commerciallore.com/2015/06/04/a-brief-history-of-sub...

Re: Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts

#239

Post by asveikau »

rayiner wrote: post #238
asveikau wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not at all what I've been hearing from reports of people getting these. They find that they're not at all targeted. They frequently don't even know who the target is. The officers get asked for a warrant and they might produce a bullshit piece of paper which is really just a memo. Anyway, it's not "me" comparing these alleged apples and oranges, I am replying deep in a thread of other people making these compa…

That’s the same as the subpoena I could send you if you had information relevant to a litigation. And you have to give it to me or else go to court to quash the subpoena. But the key difference with judicial warrants is that judicial warrants can be enforced immediately while subpoenas and administrative warrants require the cooperation of the target or else going to court to enforce the subpoena. It’s weird but the…

Sorry, it's pretty clear that you like what ICE does and you're working backwards with what you think is a legal argument that justifies it. What ICE is reportedly doing has absolutely nothing in common with a lawful subpoena.

Re: Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts

#240

Post by rayiner »

Herring wrote: post #218
galangalalgol wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking in immigrants is a short term solution. Within one generation their fertility rate drops to match the local one. Which means you have to keep bringing in new ones. That means there is never time to integrate, leading to cultural clashes and second class labor. And unless you are pulling from Africa or a couple middle eastern countries, the source of immigration is also declining in population at this point so…

> That means there is never time to integrate, leading to cultural clashes and second class labor. That's a far-right talking point. It's not true. The US has been wholesale importing immigrants for a long time and benefiting greatly from it. The problem is the safety nets broke down, eg minimum wage hasn't kept up with anything. Or housing/college/healthcare pricing has gone up much faster than income. When people f…

> That's a far-right talking point. It's not true. The US has been wholesale importing immigrants for a long time and benefiting greatly from it.

The last time the foreign born population was at the level it is today, the U.S. enacted restrictive immigration policies for 45 years and instituted aggressive measures to assimilate immigrants.

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