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AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

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Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#231

Post by JohnFen »

codexon wrote: post #183
BrokrnAlgorithm wrote: post #79

I'm a musician, but am also pretty amused by this anti ai wave. There was recently a post referencing aphex twin and old school idm and electronic music stuff and i can't help bein reminded how every new tech kit got always demonized until some group of artists came along and made it there own. Even if its just creative prompting, or perhaps custom trained models, someday someone will come along and make a genuine ar…

I find it interesting that there's so much pushback against ai generated art and music while there seems to be very little for ai generated code.

Perhaps that's because there's an enormous difference between fine art and computer programs.

Also, there's quite a lot of pushback against AI-generated code, but also because unlike music, normal people have no interest in and aren't aware of the code.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#232

Post by lukevp »

nartho wrote: post #144
BrokrnAlgorithm wrote: post #79

I'm a musician, but am also pretty amused by this anti ai wave. There was recently a post referencing aphex twin and old school idm and electronic music stuff and i can't help bein reminded how every new tech kit got always demonized until some group of artists came along and made it there own. Even if its just creative prompting, or perhaps custom trained models, someday someone will come along and make a genuine ar…

The issue is not so much an artist that will use it as a tool, even though there is much to say about it, it's the hundred of thousands of people with no interest in music whatsoever, that will flood the platforms in order to make a quick buck.

How many engineers are using ai-generated software libraries at this point? This could be all over github, but the software mostly sucks (because the AI doesn’t do architecture and real engineering, that has to be input into it right now). Increasing the volume of production doesn’t necessarily lead to the abandonment of the “good stuff”. You still have to compose the music and write the lyrics, the AI is not sophisticated enough to competently do that right now

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#233

Post by sensanaty »

NitpickLawyer wrote: post #85
LTL_FTC wrote: post #62

Not a musician (dabble with the guitar from time to time but I do absolutely love music) and don’t make music but one of my best friends growing up has been playing instruments forever. He writes songs and song lyrics. He has started a YouTube channel and shares some of the music he makes, and it sounds really great. I am amazed sometimes how great. But he puts in lots of effort to craft these songs and lyrics. They…

This is just a fad. The platforms will soon learn that the vocal minority is not necessarily their best customer. And then they'll slowly / quietly revert their bans or stop enforcing them. If people listen to music, they like the music, and it can come from wherever. Gatekeeping never works.

How would this be a vocal minority on a website like Bandcamp, whose whole mission statement is to let people support their favorite artists directly?

I'm sure there genuinely are lots of people out there who would enjoy AI-generated music, but I very much doubt there's a huge crowd of them on Bandcamp, if for no reason other than ideological.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#234

Post by sapphicsnail »

anthonypasq wrote: post #137
Ritewut wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually the definition of competition. You are just being drowned by AI music so no one can discover your music. Steam had the same issue years ago with asset flips drowning out the discoverability of actual titles and they implemented many curating tools to help resolve the issue. Acting like AI music isn't having a similar effort on genuine musicians is just playing dumb.

if no one wants the slop, then its not competition. the problem is that people do actually want the slop and artists are mad about it.

I have not met a single person offline who wants more AI music

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#235

Post by AlexandrB »

codexon wrote: post #183
BrokrnAlgorithm wrote: post #79

I'm a musician, but am also pretty amused by this anti ai wave. There was recently a post referencing aphex twin and old school idm and electronic music stuff and i can't help bein reminded how every new tech kit got always demonized until some group of artists came along and made it there own. Even if its just creative prompting, or perhaps custom trained models, someday someone will come along and make a genuine ar…

I find it interesting that there's so much pushback against ai generated art and music while there seems to be very little for ai generated code.

Music is art, code is engineering. "Hackers and painters"[1] was always wishful fluff, unfortunately.

When it comes to code, I don't think anyone cares how the sausage is made, and only very rarely do people care by whom. The only question is "does it work well?"

Art is totally different. Provenance is much more important - sometimes essential. David is a beautiful work, but you could 3d print or cast a replica of "David". No one would pretend that the copy is the same as the original though - even if they're indistinguishable to the untrained eye - because one was painstakingly hand sculpted and the others were cheaply produced. This sense of provenance is the property that NFTs were (unsuccessfully) trying to capture.

[1] https://www.paulgraham.com/hp.html

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#236

Post by Gigachad »

pousada wrote: post #209
nartho wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is not so much an artist that will use it as a tool, even though there is much to say about it, it's the hundred of thousands of people with no interest in music whatsoever, that will flood the platforms in order to make a quick buck.

People who won’t invest anything and just want to make a quick buck won’t be successful with AI generated content/music. You still need to invest significant time and effort to make it work.

They are though by sheer volume. Finding anything half good will be a needle in a planet sized haystack of slop.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#237

Post by gspr »

lukevp wrote: post #225
drittich wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also a musician and I don't think it's that amusing. IMO this isn't an "AI can't be art" discussion. It's about the fact that AI can be used to extract value from other artists' work without consent, and then out-compete them on volume by flooding the marketplace.

And you create music without ever having heard music before? Or are you also extracting other artist’s work and using it as inspiration for what you do? AI music is the same as AI code. It’s derived from real code, but it’s not just regurgitated wholesale. You still as a person with taste have to guide it and provide inputs. Electronic music made it so you didn’t have to learn to play an instrument. Auto tune made it…

> And you create music without ever having heard music before? Or are you also extracting other artist’s work and using it as inspiration for what you do?

But the parent poster is, presumably, human! Humans have the right to take inspiration like that from other humans (or machines)! Why do we seem so keen on granting machines the right to take from us? Are we not supposed to be their masters?

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#238

Post by strangecasts »

lukevp wrote: post #225
drittich wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also a musician and I don't think it's that amusing. IMO this isn't an "AI can't be art" discussion. It's about the fact that AI can be used to extract value from other artists' work without consent, and then out-compete them on volume by flooding the marketplace.

And you create music without ever having heard music before? Or are you also extracting other artist’s work and using it as inspiration for what you do? AI music is the same as AI code. It’s derived from real code, but it’s not just regurgitated wholesale. You still as a person with taste have to guide it and provide inputs. Electronic music made it so you didn’t have to learn to play an instrument. Auto tune made it…

> And you create music without ever having heard music before? Or are you also extracting other artist’s work and using it as inspiration for what you do?

For me, one key difference is that I can cite my stylistic influences and things I tried, while (to my knowledge) commercial musical generation models specifically avoid doing that, and most don't provide chord/lead sheets either -- I would find it genuinely sad to talk to a musician about their arrangement/composition choices, only to find they couldn't

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#239

Post by kazinator »

don-code wrote: post #123

A few months ago I spoke with the frontman of a local Boston band from the 1980s, who recently re-released a single with the help of AI. The source material was a compact cassette tape from a demo, found in a drawer. He used AI to isolate what would've been individual tracks from the recording, then cleaned them up individually, without AI's help. Does that constitute "wholly or in substantial part"? Would the track…

This is very similar to, "am I ripping people off if I just get the LLM AI to make a few grammar fixes in my own writing?"

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#240

Post by pousada »

Gigachad wrote: post #236
pousada wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who won’t invest anything and just want to make a quick buck won’t be successful with AI generated content/music. You still need to invest significant time and effort to make it work.

They are though by sheer volume. Finding anything half good will be a needle in a planet sized haystack of slop.

This has already been the case way before AI was a thing.

As a new artist you have to compete against 60+ years of music history - much of it really good music too.

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