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End of Japanese community

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Re: End of Japanese community

#231

Post by rjh29 »

latentsea wrote: post #34
gyomu wrote: post #18

As a multilingual/multicultural human it’s been pretty weird witnessing what AI translation has been doing to regional languages & cultures on the internet in the last few years. Sure we had machine translation before, but it was still a little off. Now the latest language models get us 99.9% there, so they are judged good enough to deploy at scale. What results is a weird twilight zone where everything is in your la…

I'm a native English speaker fluent in Japanese, recently moved to Japan this year. The one that really gets me lately is YouTube now automatically dubbing over content in Japanese that was originally in English. It's... so uncanny.

It's a problem for everyone who speaks >1 language (the majority of the world?) since you can't turn it off.

Re: End of Japanese community

#232

Post by electroly »

gpm wrote: post #165
electroly wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"SUMO" = SUpport.MOzilla.org. It's the name for the entire Mozilla support organization; everybody involved in the linked discussion is in this organization. It doesn't seem like this person is related to the bot. They are a "Locale Leader" for Indonesia, which is the same position this poster is resigning from (but for Japan). They seem to be peers.

So I'm a complete outsider, but they do not appear to be in the same position as the poster. They are marked as "Mozilla Staff" and "SUMO Administrator" (amongst many other things), neither of which the complainant is marked as. It is true both they and the person they are responding to are marked as "SUMO Locale Leaders"... but it seems rather clear from the context that is not the role they are inhabiting in their…

Thanks for that info--I think you're right and I'm wrong. I didn't see the group memberships before but now I see that the replier is far more involved in SUMO. I had only seen that they were both locale leaders and that the replier was a staff member from the tag on the post.

Re: End of Japanese community

#233

Post by badgersnake »

Stranger43 wrote: post #169

I think a fundamental lack of understanding/humility is the core of this conflict along with Mozilla's long and storied history of creating controversies/problems out of thin air. The Mozilla leadership seems to have a unfortunate tendency to emulate the behaviors of the tech companies that their core Firefox project is often seen as an alternative too. Firefox is a good browser but is prevented from capitalizing on…

> Firefox is a good browser

Increasingly it isn’t. It’s crashing 2 or 3 times a day for me now, and video conferencing is barely usable.

Re: End of Japanese community

#234

Post by krige »

gyomu wrote: post #18

As a multilingual/multicultural human it’s been pretty weird witnessing what AI translation has been doing to regional languages & cultures on the internet in the last few years. Sure we had machine translation before, but it was still a little off. Now the latest language models get us 99.9% there, so they are judged good enough to deploy at scale. What results is a weird twilight zone where everything is in your la…

Reminds me of the first time I heard youtube's forced AI translation to my native language. It's just wrong, the same male voice is used for everything, the delivery is grating, the intonation is off, the translation is very MTL in the bad sense.

And it cannot be disabled on mobile. The numbers must go up, I guess, but in my case it greatly reduced my usage of the app.

Re: End of Japanese community

#235

Post by hitekker »

jahsome wrote: post #10

I'm not really able to understand the finer details but I think I picked up enough to get the broad strokes. Really though, all I needed to see was the phrase "jump on a quick call" to form an irrationally strong opinion. That phrase instantly warms my entire body with rage.

I used the "lets jump on a quick call" tactic once at work. Other party rejected it; they said they've made their position clear and didn't need to say anything more.

I was impressed. They actually did make their position clear, and in public, whereas I was trying to smooth things over in private. Me trying to influence and cajole behind the scenes was insult to the risk they took by putting themselves out there.

A good lesson in respect.

Re: End of Japanese community

#236

Post by usrnm »

kentm wrote: post #144
jack1243star wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Generally speaking, orgs aren't trying to replace high-quality human translations with lower-quality machine translations. Seems that this is exactly what Mozilla did? And Microsoft, and Reddit, etc.

Correct. Companies are absolutely falling over themselves to replace high quality human translations with lower quality machine translation. I’m not sure how a hacker news poster could miss this trend.

A hacker news poster is very likely to consume the original English text and never encounter anything else, regardless of whether it's human-translated or not. Just like the people who make these decisions in the first place

Re: End of Japanese community

#238

Post by matt89 »

small_scombrus wrote: post #219
lopis wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the mismstch of expectations that causes good communities to create drama. If this was Google, no one would care, as one expects Google to just do what is best for the business. But with companies like Mozilla we expect a bit better. But the truth is they are barely better and the leadership plays by the same rulebook.

People did used to have decent expectations for Google back when they at least pretended to care about the "Do no evil" tagline

Indeed but it feels like a lifetime ago. I miss those days where I would look up to google and their products, as something new, cool and "not-evil".

Re: End of Japanese community

#239

Post by duxup »

jahsome wrote: post #10

I'm not really able to understand the finer details but I think I picked up enough to get the broad strokes. Really though, all I needed to see was the phrase "jump on a quick call" to form an irrationally strong opinion. That phrase instantly warms my entire body with rage.

Yeah it’s a strange request. No acknowledgment or even indication that the other person understands the issues raised.

And they’re happy to eat up more of that person’s time, probably ask them to explain all over again. Also it seems they don’t think it is worth a long call… just a quick one.

Re: End of Japanese community

#240

Post by padolsey »

chao- wrote: post #26
jahsome wrote: post #10

I'm not really able to understand the finer details but I think I picked up enough to get the broad strokes. Really though, all I needed to see was the phrase "jump on a quick call" to form an irrationally strong opinion. That phrase instantly warms my entire body with rage.

I am fascinated by the nuanced opinions people have about word choice. What phrase would you use to ask someone to discuss a matter, but which you feel would be more appropriate for this kind of situation?

I mean, almost anything would be better. But here's my swing:

  > I'm so sorry about this. We definitely screwed up here and want to
  > fix things. We want to chat to you in a call if you're able?
  > We will stop changing things, issue a moratorium on AI while we
  > figure things out. You and communities like yours are central to
  > our entire existence and purpose at Mozilla.
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