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Depression lies

wilwheaton.net

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Re: Depression lies

#231

Post by DenisM »

Alex3917 wrote: post #223
jtheory wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your language is noticeably nastier than anything you're responding to, here and in another comment below. Of course you can disagree with, or be upset by other comments, but dialing up the language significantly doesn't do anything useful.

"Of course you can disagree with, or be upset by other comments, but dialing up the language significantly doesn't do anything useful." While I respect your opinion, personally I think it's much better to have a community where people are occasionally assholes than to have a community where people are giving false and dangerous health advice.

Pleas leave and don't come back until you are ready to be civil.

Re: Depression lies

#232

Post by DenisM »

gfunk911 wrote: post #100
rubashov wrote: post #84

I thought I was depressed and anxious for almost two years. It turned out I just had a chronic sinus infection. I'm suspicious that a lot of what gets considered as psychiatric problems are really physical health problems. Anecdotally, a lot of people switch to a nutrient dense diet and cut out potential allergens and wind up feeling all better.

Also very interested in your story. I have a deviated septum causing sinus problems and an anxiety problem.......

Did you try to get that fixed? it might be worth the money.

Re: Depression lies

#233

Post by Alex3917 »

lotharbot wrote: post #230
Alex3917 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Of course you can disagree with, or be upset by other comments, but dialing up the language significantly doesn't do anything useful." While I respect your opinion, personally I think it's much better to have a community where people are occasionally assholes than to have a community where people are giving false and dangerous health advice.

> "it's much better to have a community where people are occasionally assholes" The guidelines [0] disagree with you. "Be civil" is followed by a period, not by a list of exceptions for when it's OK to be an asshole. Likewise, "please respond to the argument instead of calling names" is followed by an example, not by exceptions. When people give wrong advice, counter it, but do so without the name-calling. [0] http:/…

"When people give wrong advice, counter it, but do so without the name-calling."

I have been. For several years. You're right of course. From my perspective though it's just extremely frustrating because I try my best to help people stay safe, but day after day people keep thoughtlessly posting the same crap based on what they see on TV commercials or whatever.

Re: Depression lies

#234

Post by philwelch »

nkurz wrote: post #217
philwelch wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that wasn't a very nice thing to say. I was specifically hoping for a summary of results that discussed, among other things, experimental design. You gave me a vague Wikipedia article that points at a lot of specific studies I could probably summarize myself, as well as a lot of specific refuting studies I could summarize as well, but that's about it. And that's assuming I could get access to all the papers that…

I apologize if I misinterpreted your response. Your curt reply "Quite a few references refuting it as well" struck me as a sign that you were looking only for confirmation of your existing belief, rather than for new evidence. Yes, the article is vague, but I thought the citations were solid. I felt (and feel) that if you had a true interest in the subject, they would be of use to you. You declared they were not. I w…

> Your curt reply...struck me as a sign that you were looking only for confirmation of your existing belief, rather than for new evidence....I felt (and feel) that if you had a true interest in the subject, they would be of use to you. You declared they were not. I was reminded of the cartoon of the angry mother shouting "But he was wearing a hat" to the fireman who rescued her drowning son. No, you'll have to research and read, but that's about the best you can hope for when asking for citations from strangers.

Wow. That wasn't a very civil or constructive response, either. I'm going to go ahead and take this discussion to email since I doubt anyone else is getting anything out of this anymore.

Re: Depression lies

#236

Post by dwj »

willthames wrote: post #215
tptacek wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did not know that. Why is that such a commonly held belief?

It's only in relatively recent times been widely known that the majority cause is a bacteria http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peptic_ulcer#History Stress was the common theory beforehand The fascinating bit is the original researcher proving it by ingesting the bacteria, and giving himself an ulcer, and then curing himself with antibiotics. A Nobel Prize seems reasonable.

Actually, stress does seem to be a significant cause of stomach ulcers. It seems to be a common myth that H.Pylori entirely causes ulcers, but in fact 50% of the world population are infected by H.Pylori and it generally doesn't cause ulcers. Stress seems to be a significant cause. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peptic_ulcer#Stress

Anyway, I'm not sure what this has to do with the original post.

Re: Depression lies

#237

Post by dwj »

lilsunnybee wrote: post #113
luriel wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knowing you "have a problem" doesn't mean you or anyone understands the problem or what to do about it. And even if you know what to do, doesn't mean you can do it either, the psychological, social or just practical barriers can be impossible to climb. Medication has a statistical significant effect, but is often marginal at best, and most of the effect is placebo. And this assumes an accurate diagnosis, and don't co…

Yeah this post is really harmful. Antidepressants definitely have significant and varied effects, and those with depression should not be afraid to explore their chemical options, especially if it means lifting out of a life-threatening suicidal phase. Antidepressants affect various neurotransmitters in the brain, either blocking reuptake, or providing artificial analogues, etc. To say they provide mainly a placebo a…

Actually, the evidence does show that many (most?) antidepressants have little effect over and above placebo. Look at the meta-analyses and you'll see that. I'm not sure why it's ludicrous - that's precisely what the science says.

Now certainly antidepressants can help many people (my wife for one), but again it is likely to be mostly the placebo effect, which is actually very powerful, especially in depression. For some people a placebo can be the 'kick' they need to get help them get out of their depression. In my wife's case she also used CBT with an excellent therapist, and I think that was likely more useful in the long-term (she is now free of depression).

Re: Depression lies

#238

Post by huggah »

donniezazen wrote: post #213
huggah wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only hesitation about sharing is that I don't want people to extrapolate from what worked for me to expect it to work on themselves. So don't. With that disclaimer, I'll say that I went on several regimens of drugs for a few years. They had serious side effects, didn't work or worked only for a few months. They did keep me afloat long enough to get the rest of my life together. Stephen Ilardi's "The Depression Cur…

Do you think pushing yourself to do what you think is right is a right course of action or part of solution to your depression?

I don't understand your question. Are you asking whether I think choosing to behave ethically is part of my solution to depression? What do you mean by "do what you think is right"?

Re: Depression lies

#239

Post by carbocation »

dwj wrote: post #236
willthames wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only in relatively recent times been widely known that the majority cause is a bacteria http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peptic_ulcer#History Stress was the common theory beforehand The fascinating bit is the original researcher proving it by ingesting the bacteria, and giving himself an ulcer, and then curing himself with antibiotics. A Nobel Prize seems reasonable.

Actually, stress does seem to be a significant cause of stomach ulcers. It seems to be a common myth that H.Pylori entirely causes ulcers, but in fact 50% of the world population are infected by H.Pylori and it generally doesn't cause ulcers. Stress seems to be a significant cause. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peptic_ulcer#Stress Anyway, I'm not sure what this has to do with the original post.

H pylori has fulfilled Koch's postulates as a cause of ulcer disease. I don't agree that emotional stress is a major cause of ulcer disease.

From Harrison's 17th ed. ch 287: "H. pylori and NSAID-induced injury account for the majority of DUs."

From Malfertheiner's "Peptic Ulcer Disease" (Lancet 2009): "Emotional stress and psychosocial factors are frequently identified as important contributors to ulcer pathogenesis. Although stress cannot be neglected as a contributing factor, convincing evidence for it being the sole cause of duodenal ulcer is scarce. A good example of stress as a contributory factor was the rise in bleeding gastric ulcers in elderly people after a severe earthquake in Japan."

Note that in general, when the medical establishment talks about "stress", its practitioners generally mean physiologic stress states, such as burns, trauma, sepsis, or multiorgan dysfunction. Does physiologic stress cause ulcers? Indeed. Emotional stress? It may contribute, but is not, in itself, an important cause.

Re: Depression lies

#240

Post by snowwrestler »

jdietrich wrote: post #137

I am rather disappointed by much of the discussion in these comments. The HN community has always taken pride in being careful, analytical and data-led. If someone were to advocate an unproven cancer therapy based on anecdote, they would rightly be harshly criticised. The evidence base for SSRIs is extremely poor. The most favourable metastudies indicate only a very mild benefit, similar to that of many non-drug inte…

There is no difference between neurological and psychological phenomena, as you cannot have a functioning mind without a functioning brain. What we perceive as "mind" is the emergent property of immensely complex physical (chemical) interactions in the brain. Now that is not to say that SSRIs are the best or most effective treatment for depression. I simply object to your attempt to sort problems neatly into exclusive buckets of "neurology" vs. "psychology." You can't just hand-wave away the topic of drugs by saying "oh that's just a psychological problem."
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