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Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

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Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#231

Post by Tesl »

lanyard-textile wrote: post #227
throwaway2037 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had to know your response would get no love here on HN. You seem to be missing the point that this is like a free option for the interviewing company. Did they offer to compensate this person... say 1000 USD per hour to interview? I doubt it. As a result, the person signing this NDA has 100% of the downside, with no upsides except a "potentially lucrative job offer". That seems like a wildly unequal offer.

You know, in moments like these, you have an opportunity to build a connection — to meet someone in the middle who sees the world a little differently, who is perhaps indoctrinated into a disrespectful aspect of capitalism and is unable to see through it yet, or who perhaps offers a perspective you don’t have yourself. And you slam dunk any chance of connection for what seems to be the sake of argument and posture. A…

You should probably keep to LinkedIn for this kind of crap.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#232

Post by joshjdr »

bruce511 wrote: post #228
anticensor wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't the employer convert that into a filter?

I'm not sure I'm understanding your point. Can you elaborate?

From a prospective employer’s perspective: Is the candidate going to respect the NDA you’re planning to ask them to sign?

Similar to asking the candidate what they dislike about their previous boss. Their response may indicate how they’ll talk about you someday.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#233

Post by airocker »

detaro wrote: post #215
airocker wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why downvote this? I have gone through this route and can vouch this is for a good cause, this conversation may mislead people into believing stealing is okay.

because it's an obvious straw man.

Maybe it is not, you need much more context about the OP to declare this as a straw argument. Confidentiality agreements are generally very boilerplate. If someone is thinking that this is preventing them from working at something, they are possibly just not understanding what stealing means. This guy possibly had similar understanding of laws: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/former-uber-executive-s...

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#234

Post by matsemann »

spigottoday wrote: post #223
matsemann wrote: post #19

So happy my union managed to ban broad non-competes in my country ~8 years ago. Now it needs to be very specific if they want to enforce it (not just "development work in the same industry" which most contracts had back when I graduated), only applicable for maximum a year, and they have to pay your salary for the time they stop you working somewhere else.

What about health insurance?

We don't need health insurance in Norway. ("universal health care" or what's it called in English?)

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#235

Post by teaearlgraycold »

inetknght wrote: post #126
thfuran wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Societies where no one has any regard for rules aren't great either.

You can't make billions of dollars by following rules...

Ideally less people would be attaining that kind of personal wealth. Companies should be scaled back as well IMO.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#236

Post by SoftTalker »

hedora wrote: post #221
throwaway2037 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> strike some passages and sign it Oh my god: This is utter nonsense. They weren't kidding when they said don't take legal advice from randos on the InterWebs. Most companies outsource their employment contract authoring to an external law firm, then have (internal) senior HR go over your signed copy with a fine-toothed comb to catch exactly these kinds of "tricks". If your company is that stupid to allow it, then yo…

That’s not really a trick. It’s how contract law has worked for years. Of course, doing it without telling the new employer is a great way to get an offer rescinded. Also, if you modify it after the other side signed, then you’ll want them to initial the changes. If you modified it, then they signed without noticing the modifications, then I guess ask a lawyer. I don’t see what outsourcing has to do with it. If they…

Since it would be difficult to prove when changes/strike-outs occured relative to signatures, any such changes to the pre-printed agreement should be initialed by all parties.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#237

Post by SoftTalker »

btilly wrote: post #16

This is a state level thing. As is whether IP produced outside of your job, on your own equipment, is yours. I moved from New York to California a bit over 20 years ago in large part because I personally encountered this (the IP ownership bit), and preferred to live under California's rules. It is worthwhile to read https://www.paulgraham.com/america.html . Point 7 talks about how easy it is for regulations to accide…

Agree it varies by state. My only first-hand experience was in a relatively conservative "red" state over 20 years ago. I paid for an hour of legal advice and the lawyer said that in general non-competes cannot be so broad that they prevent you from working in your profession or skill.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#238

Post by margalabargala »

benjamincburns wrote: post #123
marcosdumay wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the Brazilian law, that requires 100% compensation, and puts the onus on the company to prove that the non-compete is necessary before it can be enforced. If you ever see one of those contracts here, it's usually usually for a very reasonable situation and a well paid position.

I generally ask for 150% - usually on the expectation that it’ll make the non-compete go away. It’s not at all a ridiculous ask, either. I’ve made a career out of going after high-impact roles in whatever is the fastest growing area of technology at the time. The non-compete isn’t just asking me to sacrifice the income from my next role, it’s asking me to sacrifice the experience as well. It also limits my ability to…

If it's 100%, I'd rather the noncompete not go away. If I am able to live off the salary, why not take the free paid vacation if it's offered? I can spend the time doing and learning things for myself, rather than the company.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#239

Post by dehugger »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #220
kirubakaran wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shockley -> Fairchild -> Intel, AMD couldn't have happened with non-compete. So Silicon Valley couldn't have happened in Washington. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traitorous_eight Per capita isn't a good measure here, as Washington's weather helps lower the denominator (I say this as a former Seattle resident)

Seattles weather does nothing to lower the denominator. The PNW is rainy and somewhat cold, but not cold enough to kill homeless on the street in large numbers which is what folks seem to think lowers the denominator. And yes I do live in the PNW.

Eastern Washington is what lowers the denominator.

Source: grew up there.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#240

Post by Craighead »

Buttons840 wrote: post #224
tianqi wrote: post #45

I think the Chinese law is effective in this regard: in order to maintain any non-competition agreement, the company must continue to pay you a monthly compensation amount equal to 30% of your total monthly income when you were at the company. Whenever the payment stops, the non-competition agreement is automatically void.

Speaking of China: The free movement of workers is important to having an efficient economy. The US could do a lot better here; we have bad safety nets, non-competes, "trade-secrets". When workers move freely and spread trade-secrets, this results in all companies performing better, on average. This is good for everyone except the lazy owners who would lose money to those who perform better. While the US worries abou…

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