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Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

latimes.com

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Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#231

Post by scoofy »

labster wrote: post #201
davidw wrote: post #31

Well, yes, that's the point. Authoritarians want to consolidate power and loot wealth, not improve things or make the world a better place.

Americans want looting and authoritarianism, so that’s what they’re getting. There’s no excuses here after a majority of people voted for Trump’s return, with his repeated promises that he wouldn’t be held back this time around. We got exactly what we voted for — worldwide tariffs, sending the military to round up migrants, a military parade with tanks in DC, antivax boards — all of these things he talked about befor…

We are living through the baby boomer going-out-of-business fire sale right now, and it's just so deeply depressing. I have an entire theory of the ideological reasons why the parties are in a political realignment, but none of it really matters much, because the older folks with the least incentive to have long term strategies are staying in office forever.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#232

Post by punpunia »

Eisenstein wrote: post #212
mostlysimilar wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even remotely helpful to keep parroting "this is what Americans wanted." Not only do Trump voters not represent a majority of Americans, the media landscape is so fractured that many people did not know what they were voting for and just wanted cheaper groceries. Is that stupid and naive? Yes. But it's also stupid and naive to generalize and say "Americans want this."

I think what they are saying is 'actions have consequences'.

Okay great, that is utterly vacuous. Now what?

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#235

Post by toomanyrichies »

refurb wrote: post #139
davidw wrote: post #31

Well, yes, that's the point. Authoritarians want to consolidate power and loot wealth, not improve things or make the world a better place.

You're not supposed to take the Democratic talking points about Trump being a "wannabe dictator" seriously. It's just political mudslinging. I figured that was obvious after Trump and Obama were all buddy-buddy at Carter's funeral. I mean, typically you don't have a friendly relationship with someone you think is ending democracy in your country.

> I figured that was obvious after Trump and Obama were all buddy-buddy at Carter's funeral.

Please tell me this isn't the only data point you're basing your conclusion on.

It's social protocol that funeral attendees treat each other in a civil manner, even if they intensely dislike each other. I'm autistic, but even I know that social rule.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#236

Post by bumby »

rockemsockem wrote: post #223
bumby wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would potentially mitigate the risk identified by the GGP regarding “unreliable” contractors who force risks on you that you may not want. Same reason I often choose to do house maintenance myself. Not to say it’s also not without costs/risks, it just comes down to which balance you prefer.

NASA still makes these competitive contracts though and picks among several contractors. Afterwards NASA is still involved in design through reviews and other lines of communication. Using your analogy, if I do hire a contractor I'll talk with them a lot about what they're going to do and make sure it's generally in line with what I want, but they're generating most of the ideas and just incorporating what I say.

Eh, not so much. They have reviews, but it is a much more hands off approach. *

There were instances where NASA engineers brought up issues with designs and were told it wasn’t their role to drive the design. The concept of CCP was they were buying a ride, not a rocket. Just like you don’t tell Airbus what engine they should use when you buy a plane ticket.

* IMO the goal of CCP was to find a mechanism to informally circumvent many requirements. NASA could always waive requirements but I don’t think many people were willing to sign on the dotted line even if they disagreed with the requirements. CCP unburdens them from the same requirements while also allowing them to avoid full responsibility for the decision. (More charitably, it also allowed them to avoid some political costs, like having to spread projects across multiple political areas to avoid funding cuts.)

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#237

Post by bobthepanda »

Ray20 wrote: post #218
davidw wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read about Maduro wanting to imprison the leader of a region of Venezuela, who belongs to the opposition party, you'd call it authoritarianism. If you read that the Secretary of Defense of Turkey declined to commit to obeying court orders, you'd call it authoritarianism. If you read about Viktor Orban sending actual troops rather than police to a city because of a flimsy pretext, you'd call it authoritarianism…

I am not an American and may not understand what is going on inside, but from the outside it appears that you are simply engaging in political smears. Authoritarianism means oppressing the masses, having an undemocratic government and acting against the will of the people. It happens in Venezuela. It happens in Turkey. It happens in Hungary. It doesn't happen in the US. If anything, what is happening in the US is exa…

Orban and Erdogan also won the popular vote, that's hardly a get-out-of-authoritarianism free card.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#238

Post by ethbr1 »

xedrac wrote: post #209
davidw wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read about Maduro wanting to imprison the leader of a region of Venezuela, who belongs to the opposition party, you'd call it authoritarianism. If you read that the Secretary of Defense of Turkey declined to commit to obeying court orders, you'd call it authoritarianism. If you read about Viktor Orban sending actual troops rather than police to a city because of a flimsy pretext, you'd call it authoritarianism…

You're ignoring the massive elephant in the room. The previous administration let millions and millions of completely unvetted and undocumented immigrants into our county, creating an unprecedented crisis. I view Trump's actions as reclaiming our country from the brink. All of the instances you mentioned are simply fallout from the crises Trump was handed, and it astonishes me how liberals cannot see this simple fact…

People who think that's a massive elephant are shortsighted.

You know what illegal immigrants do?

Work. For shitty wages.

You know what that does?

Boosts the US' labor force and economy, which buffers the declining fertility rate [0].

The fact that anti-immigration (of any sort) folks never think beyond first-effects is mind boggling. Illegal immigration causes some problems; it also solves others.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_terr...

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#239

Post by timr »

whatshisface wrote: post #163
timr wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> NASA has a positive ROI for the American economy. Citation absolutely required. Amongst other things, NASA has set huge piles of money on fire (literally!) building a rocket program that should probably be shut down entirely. Now, whether or not these particular scientific programs are a net positive investment is a more subtle point that is certainly up for debate, but "NASA has a positive ROI for the American eco…

Here's a citation that says the ROI for NASA is 3x. https://www.space.com/nasa-economic-impact-us-2023-report

That’s not a study, that’s a report issued by NASA.

You have to be painfully credulous to believe that that NASA would find anything to the contrary.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#240

Post by 0xffff2 »

umbra07 wrote: post #230
labster wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans want looting and authoritarianism, so that’s what they’re getting. There’s no excuses here after a majority of people voted for Trump’s return, with his repeated promises that he wouldn’t be held back this time around. We got exactly what we voted for — worldwide tariffs, sending the military to round up migrants, a military parade with tanks in DC, antivax boards — all of these things he talked about befor…

> Americans want looting and authoritarianism, so that's what they're getting. There's no excuses here after a majority of people voted for Trump's ret with his repeated promises that he wou be held back this time around. Why do you think it's appropriate to say "Americans want..." and "We got exactly what we voted for..." when only 32% of Americans voted for Trump?

After everything that happened up to the 2024 election, I think it's entirely reasonable to lump anyone who didn't vote at all in with those that explicitly voted for Trump.
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