It's always the same song and dance. We need to move away from US tech? Ok Great, where to? The European AWS or Google Cloud? Those don't exists. What about the European Stripe which is a big pillar of the new digital economy? Still no. What about the payment cards? Mastercard, Visa, Amex? Where are the EU alternatives? The EU is all talk and no bite. We fine US companies for breaking the law but instead of using tha…
Dutch Parliament: Time to ditch US tech for homegrown options
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Re: Dutch Parliament: Time to ditch US tech for homegrown options
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's ignoring all the times when closer trade ties did lower the likelihood of armed conflict - not in the least, within Europe itself. I agree that we badly miscalculated Russia, but not every actor is Russia and willing to tank its own economy for revanchism.
Note that I said specifically dictators, and most of Europe isn’t that. The closest would be Orban and maybe Erdogan. But Hungary is seemingly a disliked minor player. Turkey is actually interesting in that Erdogan is a strong man and he’s actually really good at it seemingly. He’s also got a very modern and well trained military.
You can try avoiding dealings with any autocracies, but that's really hard given our modern world and it's not like other democracies can never screw you over. I think it's more realistic to demand that we diversify our imports so that we can react to things like Russia's Ukraine invasion better.
Re: Dutch Parliament: Time to ditch US tech for homegrown options
#233Lets see if they put cash where there mouth is they should have been pouring billions of dollars into opensource software instead of paying Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Oracle etc in the first place. Europe countries have been client states of the USA for decades and just do whatever USA wanted first time USA has hurt their own interests so are waking up to the fact.
I was pondering in why the EU never really got targeted directly like Canada and Mexico with Trumps tarifs. I think this is it. And it would be incredibly bad for US tech billionaires if the EU started to move home all these contracts.
But, if the US parent company or its government decides to pull weird shit - like Alexa changing its data collection policy one-sided - it'll be too late to withdraw the data and reliance.
A major current day concern is the US siding with Russia and putting sanctions on the EU by for example pulling the plug on US tech companies' services in the EU unless they also withdraw any military aid from Ukraine. It's a huge escalation but given how unstable and rash the US leadership is at the moment, that's the kind of scenarios we have to consider.
Re: Dutch Parliament: Time to ditch US tech for homegrown options
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nothing so rational, I'm sure. Tariffing Canada was already insane and he didn't care.
Your point exactly - why didn't he do the same to the EU?
Re: Dutch Parliament: Time to ditch US tech for homegrown options
#235I gave a workshop yesterday on the effective use of large language models. We had participants from numerous Dutch corporations. There is a lot of unmet demand for a non-American LLM. I suggested DeepSeek, but that's Chinese. I suggested Mistral, but that's French (joke!). I found OpenGPT-X from a European consortium, but it seems quite immature as yet. https://huggingface.co/openGPT-X Perhaps there will be a Europea…
You joke but there is a lot of truth behind this. Europe is a very divided place and often prefers to do business with a foreign company than help their literal neighbour due to historical baggage.
Re: Dutch Parliament: Time to ditch US tech for homegrown options
#236Europe's problem in this area seems to be inability to build a mechanism to realize large, unprofitable projects. It looks like the whole continent operates on thin margins, and has no resources set aside to pursue strategic initiatives. US is building its pile of resources by capitalising on its current advantage, but also by pushing larger and larger parts of society into poverty. Europe is maybe more fair, but ult…
The data business in the US was not developed by “building institutions” through centralized government projects but by private enterprise. There is a fundamental difference in mindset regarding the relative importance of the public and private sectors between the two regions, and I suspect that difference underlies the stark difference between the US and EU in terms of tech companies. The US has Apple, Microsoft, Am…
I make iPhone apps.
No Apple software update has appealed to me since back when they were still named after cats. In agregate they have added some useful stuff, but even then what has gotten worse over the years means my only interest in updates is (1) the security issues and (2) the way all developers (including me!) are pushed towards supporting only the most recent releases that in turn means that even modern websites, let alone apps, don't work right on older systems: https://blog.greggant.com/posts/2024/07/03/running-10.6-snow...
And, bluntly, the library updates are also unimpressive, SwiftUI has obviously been the intended way forward for a while now, but even Apple themselves have to keep updating UIKit because SwiftUI isn't good enough yet: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2024/10118
Microsoft has a very different set of issues, but at least they sucessfully diversified into gaming platforms without destroying their dominance in office work. But how much of that dominance is the updates, vs. backward compatibility with so many people's old documents that would be extraordinarily difficult for 3rd parties to replicate? https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2008/02/19/why-are-the-micros...
And they have LinkedIn now, which has weirdly become my standard minigames(!) experience, presumably because someone finalky noticed games helped Facebook get stickier back in the day.
Amazon's consumer offerings suck. Almost everything I've bought from the website has had some issue or turned out to have been more expensive than the same stuff from a local shop I just hadn't found yet. But most people tell me AWS is good, so there's that.
FB and X's main asset is network effects, not tech. The web version of FB has bugs that I'd expect from a junior with no oversight, not a $1.5T market cap giant. Meta is more than FB these days, but is that enough? Horizons was a disaster for them, and they were outraged by Apple's ad changes that only implemented what various laws already required, their foundations may turn out to be a marshy flood plain.
No, what these companies have is mindshare, branding, and deep enough pockets to make government-scale spending capital allocations and survive their inevitable incorrect allocations.
(And by being so big that governments listen to them, regulatory capture etc.)
Re: Dutch Parliament: Time to ditch US tech for homegrown options
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
Meanwhile people in the West are being dropped into poverty. The environmental costs of globalisation are (literally) horrific. And a surprising amount of it is useless makework - disposable "fashion", faddy toys, and shoddy consumer goods that break after a couple of years. As for lowering the risk of armed conflict - how's that working out for everyone?
If you keep squeezing the middle income class, that’s the direction you’re going: poverty. Regardless of the existence of Manufacturing. Tax your rich fairly and you will see major shift.
Re: Dutch Parliament: Time to ditch US tech for homegrown options
#238I am curious if this post will be deleted by the moderators, like the last time a discussion about European tech sovereignty was brought up on this American website.
Re: Dutch Parliament: Time to ditch US tech for homegrown options
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
A heads-up in case there's any confusion: Greenland is part of Denmark, whereas the Dutch Parliament is the parliament of the Netherlands. Both are part of the EU, of course (although Greenland isn't).
And more importantly, all are part of NATO. So if Greenland is attacked, the Netherlands has to help defend.