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OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
231–240 of 1001 posts
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
I saw a some Europeans hoping that the US would ban DeepSeek, because then there would be less traffic interfering with their own DeepSeek queries. The US can ban all they want, but if the rest of the world starts preferring Chinese social media, Chinese AI, and Chinese websites in general, the US is going to lose one of its crown jewels. The way the US behaves is a problem and makes a lot of people prefer alternativ…
Agreed, you've highlighted one of the key problems with protectionism and nativism. Banning competition just weakens America's global influence, it doesn't make it stronger.
Plus technology cycles move so quickly that you won't have to wait a generation or two to see the effects of this isolationism.
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
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I personally love this chef's kiss of a flip flop sam did here: https://blog.samaltman.com/trump https://www.reddit.com/r/YAPms/comments/1i7ry5m/sam_altman_g... Only a truly talented piece of shit can be as prolific as this. "He is irresponsible in the way dictators are." Chef's kiss. Edit: Kids, don't aspire to be like Altman. We as a community need to espouse more values than tech is gonna tech .
As a society we might talk about virtue, but the reason we put it as a goal in stories is that in the real world, we don't reward it. It's not just that corruption wins sometimes, but we directly punish those that fight it. The mood of the times, if anything, comes from people realizing that what we called moral behavior leads to worse outcomes for the virtuous.
A community only espouses good values when it punishes bad behavior. How do we do this when those misbehaving are very rich, and attempting to punish the misbehavior has negative consequences on you? There just aren't many available tools that don't require significant sacrifices.
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#234This is absolutely hilarious! :) ClosedAI scraped human content without asking and they explained why this was acceptable... but when the outputs of their training corpus is scraped, it is THEIR dataset and this is NOT acceptable! Oh, the irony! :D I shared a few screenshots of DeepSeek answering using ChatGPT's output in yesterday's article! https://semking.com/deepseek-china-ai-model-breakthrough-sec...
So it is true, they run out of Data to steal? :-) And then where DeepSeek steal from next? Do they steal from themselves? Do they steal the stolen models they stole from the stolen data? The AI Ponzi scheme...
Exactly this, especially as journalism melts down into slag. Soon all anybody will have to train on is social media, Wikipedia and GitHub, and that last one will slowly be metastasized by AI-generated code anyway.
It reminds me of 1984 in a sense. "Don’t you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it."
Unlike 1984 I don't see this winnowing of new concepts as purposeful, but on the other hand I keep asking myself how we can be so stupid as to keep doing it.
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#235This is absolutely hilarious! :) ClosedAI scraped human content without asking and they explained why this was acceptable... but when the outputs of their training corpus is scraped, it is THEIR dataset and this is NOT acceptable! Oh, the irony! :D I shared a few screenshots of DeepSeek answering using ChatGPT's output in yesterday's article! https://semking.com/deepseek-china-ai-model-breakthrough-sec...
So far the whole business model of Silicon Valley since social media has been to monetize other peoples' content given out for free. The whole empire is built on this.
I wonder if this is going to come to an end through a combination of social media fatigue, social media fragmentation, and open source LLMs just giving it all back to us for free. LLMs are analogous to a "JPEG for ideas" so they're just lossy compression blobs of human thought expressed through language.
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "they destroyed $1T of shareholder value." (By revealing that Microsoft et al. paid way too much to OpenAI et al. for technology that was actually easy to reinvent.) The value was highly speculative, an illusion created by PR and sentiment momentum. "Hype value" not real value (unless you're able to realize it and dump those bags on someone else before fundamentals set in). Same thing happening with power companies…
What they really destroyed was the idea that OpenAI would be able to charge $200/month for their ChatGPT Pro subscription which includes o1. That was always ridiculous IMO. The Free tier and $20/month Plus tier along with their API business (minus any future plan to charge a ridiculous amount for API access to o1) will be fine.
> The Free tier and $20/month Plus tier along with their API business (minus any future plan to charge a ridiculous amount for API access to o1) will be fine.
Do the unit economics make this sustainable?
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#237This is absolutely hilarious! :) ClosedAI scraped human content without asking and they explained why this was acceptable... but when the outputs of their training corpus is scraped, it is THEIR dataset and this is NOT acceptable! Oh, the irony! :D I shared a few screenshots of DeepSeek answering using ChatGPT's output in yesterday's article! https://semking.com/deepseek-china-ai-model-breakthrough-sec...
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I'm sure him lining up to kiss Trump's ring for some kind of bailout is not a coincidence.
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#238DeepSeek-R1's multi-step bootstrapping process, starting with their DeepSeek-V3 base model, would only seem to need a small amount of reasoning data for the DeepSeek-R0 RL training, after which that becomes the source for further data, along with some other sources that they mention.
Of course it's possible that DeepSeek used O1 to generate some of this initial bootstrapping data, but not obvious. O1 anyways deliberately obfuscates it's reasoning process (see "Hiding the chains of thought" section of OpenAI's "Learning to reason with LLMs" page), such that what you see is an after-the-fact "summary" of what it actually did; so, if DeepSeek did indeed use some of O1's output to train on, it shows that the details of O1's own reasoning process isn't as important as they thought it was - it's just having some verified (i.e. leading to good outcome) reasoning data from any source that matters to get started.
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#239My feeling is that they will ban DS anyway because, like TikTok, it can become a massive intelligence source for the CCP. Imagine sending all your code to it, or your internal emails.
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
The picture at the end showing deepseek's privacy policy and being concerned that it's "a security risk" is hilarious[1]. Basically every B2C company collects this sort of information[2], and is far less intrusive than what social networks collect[3]. But because it's Chinese and at the risk of overtaking Western companies, people are suddenly worried about device information and IP addresses? [1] https://semking.com…
One of my core followers named Bruno basically said the same thing under my Linkedin post yesterday: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/organic-growth_deepseek-the-o... I welcome friction, so I'll be blunt: I disagree with you, not because what you are saying is wrong but because you only consider systematic data collection. That's not the issue here. There's a difference between democracies like the United States or Eur…
It’s also important to recognize that the Chinese government is known to walk into internet service companies and demand they censor, alter data, delete things. No court order or search warrant required.
China considers industry to be completely subservient to government. Checks and balances are secondary to ideas like harmony and collective well being.