HN posts about this used to be 99% Pro-Zionist. There’s been a marked shift in opinion (or less bots) and I’m very, very glad that people are recognising the extent of war crimes being committed by Israel.
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Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report
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Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yet Russia, a country the leader of which is wanted for war crimes - is on the permanent Security Council. The whole organization needs to be uprooted and rebuilt. It's become a farce.
Multiple recent American presidents also committed war crimes
We can discuss American misadventures and horrible decisions in the aftermath of 9/11, but equating the U.S. military to Russia, which effectively has rape and torture as part of its doctrine, is more than a stretch.
To be clear, I totally expected a comment like that, but I can guarantee you 1000% that no Ukrainians will be hanging on to Russian cargo plane wheels once they are booted out.
Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report
#233At this point the country should be suspended from UN, like Apartheid SA was before, in 1974. See https://www.nytimes.com/1974/11/13/archives/south-africa-is-...
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Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report
#234HN posts about this used to be 99% Pro-Zionist. There’s been a marked shift in opinion (or less bots) and I’m very, very glad that people are recognising the extent of war crimes being committed by Israel.
Just as well as it could be “less bots” promoting one side, to “more bots” promoting the other. What types of war would you not consider a crime?
Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
Israel never left Gaza. They surrounded it. They controlled the entire land border and didn't let ships sail or planes take off from Gaza. It's as if, after a prison riot, all of the guards just said fuck 'em and decamped to a perimeter around the prison with machine guns with orders to shoot to kill. Gaza is way too small and densely populated to be remotely self-sufficient. Now, just to short-circuit the reply chai…
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Their slogan in Arabic is "from the river to the sea Palestine will be Arab", the river and the sea are the borders of Israel and its tantamount to "kill all the Jews".
There are many variants of the slogan of course, but for some reason you're picking one of the more uncommon (and more virulent) versions. However, he "official" versions (for example from the PLO) use the phrase to call for a single democratic state for Arabs and Jews, that would replace Israel, and from which nobody will be expelled.
This is of course also in line (albeit in somewhat simplified form) with the version one sees almost uniformly on the streets these days, "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free", and if you ask people what they mean by that, most of them will tell you something equivalent to the PLO version.
Meanwhile since 1977 Likud has used essentially the same slogan, but in reverse, minus any aspirations of democratic equality, and with racial supremacy baked in: "Between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty."
Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report
#236HN posts about this used to be 99% Pro-Zionist. There’s been a marked shift in opinion (or less bots) and I’m very, very glad that people are recognising the extent of war crimes being committed by Israel.
99% pro Zionist ...can you show me even one example of such a post? I don't think you can.
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Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
Israel is simply not going to decide to cease to exist. People living in Israel are not going to up and leave. They’re not going to say “sure take my house” any more than you would. This kind of thing is entirely magical thinking that can only happen because you aren’t able to generate any kind of empathy for people living in Israel. Kids born in the West Bank or Gaza today are not helped to have a better future by t…
People living in Israel are not going to up and leave. Which is fine, because the parent isn't suggesting that they do anything of the sort.
The parent is suggesting a single state solution and giving this is the context of Hezbollah, the right of return. (Hezbollah is not in Palestine.)
Nobody on this planet would make that deal with groups who have the goal of destroying your country. If Hamas had been a peaceful group, democracy had taken hold in Gaza, it had existed peacefully with Israel, had never had the aim of destroying Israel, then yeah, you might be able to imagine a future where the two merge and live harmoniously. But that is not reality today.
Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
I used to be of that mindset and no longer am. Hamas killed more people in a single day than the IRA killed in its entire existence. The Irish conflict which is more similar to the conflict Israel has in the west bank, is mostly a territorial conflict. If it were true that violence breeds violence then Jews would have blown up post war Germany with suicide vests. It was still filled with Nazis and their collaborators…
I agree that the Irish conflict is more like the West Bank (but that's super super bad and has been for a long time) and that October 7th was much more destructive than anything in the Troubles. Like, it's worth noting that the core of the nationalist and unionist terrorists still live in Ireland and engage in a bunch of criminality. These organizations don't disband, they just die off/become politicians. The big pro…
A solid majority is for peace and has been for a while. Oct 7th might have screwed the numbers, but they will bounce back. The Oslo accords wouldn't have happened with out a solid majority. Netanyahu himself had to make a speech where he specifically supported the idea of a Palestinian state in order to get elected (see the Bar Ilan Speech).
There are many peace activists on both sides but also a lot of fatigue and disillusionment. Don't let that get you down too. I think once the dust settles things could change. The pendulum always swings to the other side, we just need patience and to set an environment receptive for that. If Trump wins this election things will probably get much worse before they get better. But I think that they will get better even in that worst case scenario.
Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is often repeated but is historically VERY incorrect. Yes, Israel does lobbying in the states and does influence (like every other country). The current Israeli government is indeed terrible and blatant at that. However, Israel left Gaza in 2005 with no deal as part of US pressure (which led to the current situation). Israel offered a Palestinians a country which included east Jerusalem twice based on US pressur…
Israel offered a Palestinians a country which included east Jerusalem twice based on US pressure. On which occasions?
There were two separate offers made by Barak to Arafat in 2000 and by Olmert to Abu Mazen in 2008.
Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
People living in Israel are not going to up and leave. Which is fine, because the parent isn't suggesting that they do anything of the sort.
The parent is suggesting a single state solution and giving this is the context of Hezbollah, the right of return. (Hezbollah is not in Palestine.) Nobody on this planet would make that deal with groups who have the goal of destroying your country. If Hamas had been a peaceful group, democracy had taken hold in Gaza, it had existed peacefully with Israel, had never had the aim of destroying Israel, then yeah, you mig…
You're projecting more into the commenter's words than is actually to be found in them, it seems.
It's quite cleare Hamas needs to be marginalized and taken out of the picture (along with its spiritual companions in the 37th Government) before anything can move forward, but that's a separate issue.