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The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

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Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#231

Post by yashchandra »

krschultz wrote: post #215
mkramlich wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuck college. It's not the only way to learn, to meet people, or to show your expertise, capabilities and accomplishments anymore. We have this thing called the Internet now. Write a book. Put a PDF online. Record a video of yourself giving an intelligent speech or showing some useful talent. Put it on YouTube. Write software. Put on GitHub. Answer technical questions well on StackExchange (or whatever for your parti…

Fuck people who bitch about how expensive college is. You know how much I paid for college? $0. You know why I paid that? Because in high school I did a lot less than what you outlined above, but it was enough to get a scholarship to go to college. Six great schools looked at my application and offered me somewhere between a discounted rate and a full ride + stipend on top of that. And I was only 20th in my high scho…

Fuck people who bitch about people who bitch about how expensive college is

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#232

Post by wtvanhest »

jamesrcole wrote: post #229
krschultz wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuck people who bitch about how expensive college is. You know how much I paid for college? $0. You know why I paid that? Because in high school I did a lot less than what you outlined above, but it was enough to get a scholarship to go to college. Six great schools looked at my application and offered me somewhere between a discounted rate and a full ride + stipend on top of that. And I was only 20th in my high scho…

There's a limited number of scholarships to go around, and for those who can't get one, the cost will matter.

There are tons of undergrad programs that are less than $10k per year. Big state schools which will give you all the social experiences you need and some of the learning.

No HR department can interview people without a degree when there are so many people with degrees. A degree doesn't get you in the door, but is a minimum standard for just about any job.

It is too bad school is too expensive, but it doesn't matter.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#233

Post by jmj42 »

indiecore wrote: post #198
lordlicorice wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At research universities most of the budget comes from research, and most of the work in research gets done by grad students. Undergrad programs are an afterthought.

Well undergraduate programs are a thought in that they are needed to produce candidates for the graduate programs that provide value. And from what I can see most of the budget comes from and is devoted to college football.

> And from what I can see most of the budget comes from and is devoted to college football.

This couldn't be further from the truth. I'm unaware of any major universities in which sports money comes from or is applied to general budgets. Athletic departments are generally self-contained and there is very little (if any) financial overlap into the academic portions of a university. Payroll, and even scholarships, are paid from athletic income, and any left over is not put into general budget.

Personally, I wish the myth of "the cost to the university/tax payers/etc" would go away.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#234

Post by aplusbi »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #200
WalterBright wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 4-year outdated programs A good STEM program teaches you how to think, and that never gets outdated. Colleges offer a smorgasbord of courses to take. If you select courses for the easiest route to a degree, you won't be that employable. If you select courses that will give you the best foundation for your chosen career, that'll do much better. For example, although I got a degree in engineering, I made sure I also…

If you select courses for the easiest route to a degree, you won't be that employable. I've never seen evidence that specific courses matter much for employment post college. Do you have data on this?

I don't think Walter Bright meant that listing the courses you took on your resume is going to make you more (or less) employable. I think the point was that taking difficult classes will better prepare your for work.

I slightly disagree with this position, difficult doesn't mean better (depending on your definition of better). For example, I would have been better served to take a class on databases rather than a class on computational geometry.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#235

Post by Havoc »

I agree with a lot of the points raised in the article. However, the author makes it sound like going to university is a foolish choice. Sure its overpriced & the crappy degrees aren't any good, but on the whole going to uni is still the correct call in most cases.

Round here its just a matter of selecting a sufficiently vicious degree. Worked for me: I had (multiple) employment offers lined up ~6 months into the 4 year course. So did the majority of my classmates.

Perhaps I'm biased since it clearly worked out for me, but still I think this whole thing about tertiary education being overrated is BS - at least for the proper degrees.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#236

Post by debacle »

WalterBright wrote: post #127
vladd wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today the same institutions provide education and certify skills. If nothing else, it's an obvious conflict of interests that's tolerated only because historically there was no other practical way around it. The war for talent and the online classes will soon disrupt that - you'll be able to give interviews/tests in a 2-day examination and get a paper saying what you really know (like SAT is for pupils). And when tha…

> 4-year outdated programs A good STEM program teaches you how to think, and that never gets outdated. Colleges offer a smorgasbord of courses to take. If you select courses for the easiest route to a degree, you won't be that employable. If you select courses that will give you the best foundation for your chosen career, that'll do much better. For example, although I got a degree in engineering, I made sure I also…

If you exit high school not knowing how to think, you're not going to suddenly learn in college.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#237

Post by yashchandra »

wtvanhest wrote: post #232
jamesrcole wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a limited number of scholarships to go around, and for those who can't get one, the cost will matter.

There are tons of undergrad programs that are less than $10k per year. Big state schools which will give you all the social experiences you need and some of the learning. No HR department can interview people without a degree when there are so many people with degrees. A degree doesn't get you in the door, but is a minimum standard for just about any job. It is too bad school is too expensive, but it doesn't matter.

"It is too bad school is too expensive, but it doesn't matter."

It does matter. The schools that are worth anything are too expensive (exceptions are there of course) while the cheap ones (read cheap schools.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#238

Post by maigret »

jellicle wrote: post #43

Mark Cuban writes: "As an employer I want the best prepared and qualified employees. I could care less if the source of their education was accredited by a bunch of old men and women who think they know what is best for the world. I want people who can do the job. I want the best and brightest. Not a piece of paper." So, I suppose I could be wrong, but I would be willing to bet a great deal of money that Mark Cuban d…

At least some data seems to agree with you http://www.businessinsider.com/busted-hypocritical-peter-thi...

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#239

Post by danneu »

krschultz wrote: post #215
mkramlich wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuck college. It's not the only way to learn, to meet people, or to show your expertise, capabilities and accomplishments anymore. We have this thing called the Internet now. Write a book. Put a PDF online. Record a video of yourself giving an intelligent speech or showing some useful talent. Put it on YouTube. Write software. Put on GitHub. Answer technical questions well on StackExchange (or whatever for your parti…

Fuck people who bitch about how expensive college is. You know how much I paid for college? $0. You know why I paid that? Because in high school I did a lot less than what you outlined above, but it was enough to get a scholarship to go to college. Six great schools looked at my application and offered me somewhere between a discounted rate and a full ride + stipend on top of that. And I was only 20th in my high scho…

Maybe the monolithic decision of university shouldn't be forced upon us when we're teen-aged and entrenched in dogma.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#240

Post by pilom »

jamesrcole wrote: post #229
krschultz wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuck people who bitch about how expensive college is. You know how much I paid for college? $0. You know why I paid that? Because in high school I did a lot less than what you outlined above, but it was enough to get a scholarship to go to college. Six great schools looked at my application and offered me somewhere between a discounted rate and a full ride + stipend on top of that. And I was only 20th in my high scho…

There's a limited number of scholarships to go around, and for those who can't get one, the cost will matter.

I think what krschultz is saying is that if you have the skills to be successful without a college degree, you also are likely to have the skills to get a scholarship to a decent school. They are a somewhat similar skillset and going to college allows you to check the checkbox on an application.
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