So a shipping company is refusing to deliver packages to a specific company? This sounds like a shakedown.
That is of course exactly what it is.
Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries
231–240 of 409 posts
Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries
#232Considering all Tesla imports come from Germany or China, I feel Sweden will be on the losing end of this.
I find this comment disturbing - you are suggesting that 3 nations combined, some of the richest cointries on earth, lack either power or authority to reign in what a foreign corporstion does on their soil? How do you reconsile that such belief with democracy? Because that set of beliefs is only compatiable with belief in some kind of trans-national oligarchy. Or maybe some sort of America-centeic-colonialism, i am s…
I’m not entirely sure what the GP commenter is trying to say, but I’m also not sure how they imply Sweden, Germany, and China are working together, as I think is implied in your comment in that their power or authority is combined. Could you maybe rephrase what you mean, or how you interpreted their comment?
Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries
#233So a shipping company is refusing to deliver packages to a specific company? This sounds like a shakedown.
What is striking here is that the Government offices all use the services of PostNord. So Tesla has no choice over using PostNord, they are mandated by law to do so to receive their plates, yet a private interest group can arbitrarily deny them access to public services. There is a lot of verbiage about how Tesla is shooting itself in the foot for peanuts, and I guess it's a legitimate position to hold. The far large…
> What is striking here is that the Government offices all use the services of PostNord.
Why is it striking? They own PostNord. It's 60% owned by Sweden's government, 40% by Denmark's. It's a state-owned corporation.
The US government tends to use USPS for similar reasons.
Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries
#234Tesla should crush pesky swedish unions, no matter what. Buy ports, buy ships, buy trucks, buy electricians, buy a brand new postal service etc. The $26 B cash on hand should be used somewhere, instead of usual executive package and share buyback. Edit:- If my comment is not as per HN guidelines, I am willing to delete it.
This is one of these cases where one would assume that it's a joke, but because Naughty Old Mr Car is involved, Poe's Law is in full effect.
So, assuming you're serious... Eh?
Tesla shareholder meeting, 2024. "We're going to spend 26 billion dollars on attempting to build a parallel economy in Sweden." ".... Why?" "Oh, spite, mostly."
How do you think that would go over?
Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Doesn't the union have a vote to decide these things This was decided by Seko's union board, the union that covers most PostNord and other delivery companies employees > PostNord says it can't force it's workers to do something It is illegal to prevent a strike, yes > So if it's not the workers decision it's PostNord's decision and that is very different It's the unions decision https://www-seko-se.translate.goog/p…
So what you're saying is the union is forcing them to not deliver to Tesla?
As difficult as it might be to wrap our heads around it, no, there's no forcing, but it's the workers' collective decision as a union to not deliver to Tesla. A union is not some god-given abstract concept, it's a assembly of elected members of the workers which collectively voted to proceed this way. So the only "forcing" you could talk about is Tesla forcing them to accept unacceptable conditions, and even this wouldn't be really "forcing" - as we can see there are two parties negotiating their rights, all within their powers.
Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's tricky in Sweden, PostNord is by a far distance the best delivery mechanism (it customer service still sucks though), if you go far up North or rural many other delivery services are hard to find. There is a lot of things to be said about PostNord but its most reliable.
I really don't think this is tricky at all. If Musk is serious about the fight then I'm sure that for the right price they can find other couriers to meet their needs. Even if they had to pay an order of magnitude more money. It would only be for the short term.
It’s the Swedish transport authority that ships the license plates and PostNord has won that tender and there is no way this will impact that.
You can’t have a “should not respect strikes” clause in your tender, especially not as a government agency
Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries
#237The important detail which most people seem to miss is that Tesla's workers aren't behind this. They don't want to unionize, because there's no reason to. The IF Metall union is striking because they just want to get their cut.
> The important detail which most people seem to miss is that Tesla's workers aren't behind this. They don't want to unionize, because there's no reason to. > The IF Metall union is striking because they just want to get their cut. What sort of people do you think IF Metall is made up of? It's the second largest union in Sweden, the people who are a part of the union are also workers at Tesla and other companies. It'…
The point is that it's not Tesla's employees that are behind it.
It is people working elsewhere -- or rather, the management of the labour unions that organize those other people.
Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
So what you're saying is the union is forcing them to not deliver to Tesla?
As difficult as it might be to wrap our heads around it, no, there's no forcing, but it's the workers' collective decision as a union to not deliver to Tesla. A union is not some god-given abstract concept, it's a assembly of elected members of the workers which collectively voted to proceed this way. So the only "forcing" you could talk about is Tesla forcing them to accept unacceptable conditions, and even this wou…
As difficult as it is to wrap our heads around. If no one is forcing them not to do it, it is their decision not to. So when they say employees decision it's true.
Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
My understanding is that the various unions view Tesla’s actions as a threat to how labour works in Sweden. There apparently isn’t even a minimum wage in the country as everything is governed by these collective agreements. So if they let Tesla come in and not play by the rules it could open the floodgates for other large corporations to come in and do the same, slowly eroding the system.
Yeah I think that's correct. The unions here are not acting as representatives of Tesla workers to negotiate with Tesla, but rather as cartels trying to prevent two willing parties (Tesla and its employees) from doing business without cutting in the union. I had no idea that unions could operate like this. I thought unions were tools to gain workers leverage against their employers, which I obviously support. I find…
So you support workers gaining leverage with the help of unions, but when the workers actually try gaining leverage with the help of unions, you call them names. That's not exactly showing "support" is it?
Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries
#240Fuck these companies that think they can break the unions our former generations built for the purpose of being treated fair. Americans don't get it. We Scandinavians are not built on a cultural foundation which circles around creating our own safety nets. We are not lucky. We worked hard for it for hundreds of years. Same thing goes for Wolt or Uber etc. They are not welcome here if they can't treat workers by their…
Can you tell me more about the safety net thing? As an American I actually don’t understand that point. Are you saying culturally your family wouldn’t feel obligated to be a safety net if another family member was struggling? And that the unions defacto provide that sort of guarantee?
Family can be and is one safety net in Europe, but many people haven't one, or one that can help, or one that wants to help. Nordic countries have been very stable through history and developed a culture where the community goes much farther than family. This helps the society become more resilient in an environment where the climate was historically very harsh and unforgiving. Also it feels great to be able to trust the existing rules in place. You know what to expect, and you feel fine to follow them when you know they are enforced to others as well. You expect others to know and follow the rules as well.