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My Caste

cs.toronto.edu

231–240 of 451 posts

Re: My Caste

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Category : Cutoff Score for IIT ( out of 100) Common Rank List :90.7788642 (Brahmins, upper castes which Ycombinator hates) Gen-EWS:75.6229025 OBC-NCL:73.6114227 : Mr Kuldeep meel (based on his caste) SC:51.9776027 ST:37.2348772 PwD:0.0013527 I would say 73 is minuscule in comparison of 90. Kuldeep is a typical Kota kid, he is not someone coming out from rural India. I wish him best. Sad to see he stopped so low for…

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The thread is just a headsup to those, who are not well informed on the issues and the word caste triggers them. The effort is to provide factual data along with the circumstances so that people can weight and relate all kind of arguments with their own life experiences. Also, help our white bois/gals understand what they talking about lol.

Re: My Caste

#232
post #209

How do foreigners / non-Hindus fit into the caste system? Are there caste equivalent attitudes towards Arabs, Euros, East Asians and so on? Or from a different angle, Muslims, Christians, irreligious, etc. Or does the framework not apply to those outside of the Hindu community?

It mostly doesn’t. Historically there have been lots of mass conversions to other religions the first one being Buddhism in 600BC. Buddhism came about primarily as a response to Hindu orthodoxy and the caste system.

Muslims so, despite being not covered by India's caste system, are heavily discriminated against so. A situation not helped by decades of war with neighboring Pakistan.

Re: My Caste

#233
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're trying to hint at some "it happens all the time, it's just hidden from public view", it doesn't. Non-Indians literally don't care, and very (very) few Indians actually do (at least in Canada).

> If you're trying to hint at some "it happens all the time, it's just hidden from public view", it doesn't. > Non-Indians literally don't care These are contradicting statements. We know non-Indians don't care ... because most of us don't even know about it, at least in any capacity to have a strong opinion. Maybe non-Indians "literally" not caring is why "it's just hidden from public view"

By "don't care", I didn't mean "they know but don't care"; I meant "non-Indians are completely oblivious of this".

You cannot accuse of someone behaving in a discriminatory way if those very concepts of discrimination don't even exist in their mind. Come on.

Re: My Caste

#234
post #42

This caste problems continue in the US, instead of leaving behind such ridiculous biases it becomes a part of an US company… https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/googles-caste-bias-pr...

Since this is about Google, where I worked: > The Google spokesperson said that caste discrimination has “no place in our workplace and it’s prohibited in our policies.” I can testify that Ads was very heavily Indian, much more than the general employee percentages would predict. I don't know if it still is. Sridhar Ramaswamy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sridhar_Ramaswamy ) probably had something to do with that.…

> So is that "discrimination?"

Yes, absolutely. It may be passive and unconscious, but it's still discrimination. I bet a lot of more-than-qualified candidates -- many likely even more qualified than the people who ended up getting hired -- were rejected.

Unless you're going to assert that Indian people are uniquely the most qualified and best at building advertising systems (which I hope we can agree would be an absurd assertion to make), it's a near certainty that better candidates were passed over.

And looking at it from the potential candidate perspective, I personally wouldn't want to work on a team that is heavily over-represented by any one race (even my own), and I wouldn't be surprised if that "scared away" some great candidates (of other races) for positions as well. This is no different than the archetypal example of a woman engineer being uncomfortable joining a team full of men.

> People tend to refer their friends and give good recommendations to people they know.

I've come to believe that referrals are great when you're a tiny startup trying to find people whose work you can trust (since dead weight can be fatal to a new company), but become less and less useful -- and sometimes even counterproductive -- as a company grows in size.

At any rate, at any non-tiny company, any referral should be put through the same interview process as the other candidates, and should be judged based on the interview, not on the referrer's opinion. The referrer should not even be a part of the interview process, anyway. Not just when it comes to their referral, but (if possible), they shouldn't be a part of the other candidates' interview panels either, as they may be (at best) unconsciously biased against the others.

> A Canadian is more likely to know other Canadians.

Canadians aren't a racial group (and a Canadian may be white, black, native, Asian, Indian, whatever), so I don't think this particular example has anything to do with the rest of what you're talking about. If that team mostly or exclusively comprised white Canadians (or Canadians of any other single race), then yeah, maybe there's an issue there. And regardless, a team comprised of the same $X -- where $X is pretty much anything -- should be a red flag. To me, that's a sign that the team may be cliquish and discriminate (even unconsciously) against anyone who might join the team but be an "outsider" from the perspective of $X.

Re: My Caste

#235

Just as India is large and complex, so is everyone's experience. 59.5% of IIT seats are reserved for backward castes - that is HUGE in a nation full of students competing for the 40% seats available for the general category. The entrance exam score gap between reserved and general is massive (numbers are public) and it shows in their relative academic performance. One could make an argument that the Indian Government…

No one wants to talk about the giant elephant in the room: reservation system vs. competence. Go to any govt office: the chief of some division is incompetent, some low-level clerk does the heavy lifting. Of course, this low-level clerk happens to be from non-reserved category, as both recruitment and promotions in the government are driven by reservations. Why people (both reserved and non-reserved) send their kids…

IITs? I have been hearing talks of forcing it on ISRO and private companies.

Re: My Caste

#236
post #191

India will not get anywhere meaningful as long as this institutionalized discrimination persists. "backward", really ? are we in the 21st century ?

Indian English is not the same as American English. As I understand it, "backwards" means "disadvantaged" in this context. Perhaps you should prepone learning about English dialects.

sorry, not American here. "backwards" means the same thing in any other type of English. I will "prepone" it... lol

Re: My Caste

#237
post #218
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the delta was the result of a lack of candidates from disadvantaged castes, to me that suggests that the discrimination already happened earlier, weeding out the disadvantaged castes before they could even become qualified candidates.

What if differences in outcome are due to genetics? Do we then genetically engineer each group (this tech will soon be widespread) until all group outcomes are equalized? Serious question btw, I have heard someone applauding this (and seeing it as likely to occur as an emergent phenomenon due to free market competition). (As a humorous side-note: I heard someone say in an interview, "I hope that differences in intell…

I mean the vast majority of studies indicate environmental factors like access to healthy food, a strong family, educational opportunities, and the literal environment are what drives difference in outcomes, not "genetic inferiority".

Maybe someone from a lower (poorer) caste was raised on a diet of food grown in polluted/ tainted fields, grew up with poor air quality, and their water comes through lead pipes or other means that permanently hinder their potential.

You're arguing pure eugenics and apparently find it funny.

Re: My Caste

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly. There is a very real economic divide between rural India and urban India. Even if you were from a feudal landlord family, 30 years ago you might have not even had running water or electricity. But at least you had a solid house, instead of living in a mud hut (if you were lucky) like most Dalits and Nomads in rural India back then. If someone from an elite rural family came to the city, their privilige a…

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What "sort of problems" do you mean, exactly?

Re: My Caste

#239
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on your comment of "Indian friends" never bringing it up, do you know what caste they were born into? I mean maybe they never bring it up because it wasn't a problem for their station by birth?

You didn't get the point of my comment. "Caste" is meaningless here. Edit: @cududa's comment was something like "care to share what caste you were born into?" to which I replied what you see here and then he altered his comment substantially. Sneaky.

The updated post makes sense - you say caste has nothing to do with anything but you may not be in a position to judge.

Especially if all your Indian friends are of the same caste, even if that’s accidentally so.

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