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Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

reuters.com

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Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#231

Post by Forgeties79 »

bottlepalm wrote: post #230
Forgeties79 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal? Most people aren’t corporations. Most people have absolutely no need to move over 10k USD in a single day regularly. You can take it at face value, it’s very obvious. You’re also forgetting that businesses already can . The 10k example was for me as an individual. It sounds like you're saying businesses are currently unable to transfer large sums of money regularly and Bitcoin is their solution. It's very…

> people have absolutely no need to move over 10k USD in a single day regularly I guess you don't know what you don't know.

Well I know that I can't pay my mortgage or children's tuition with bitcoin (my two largest regular expenses), I know that transactions actually can take minutes so I don't want to use it to buy coffee, I know that if I forget my password I lose literally every cent in my wallet with no recourse, I know I need to convert it to USD to do 99% of my daily transactions, I know that the price it's at today is not the price it will be at tomorrow with margins much wider and more frequently occurring than with USD, and I know that most people have absolutely no desire to learn how to use it (as evidenced by over a decade of modest adoption and most vendors not accepting it).

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#232

Post by nkuttler »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #71
angry_albatross wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI is not in the same category in my book. Both may be overhyped in some ways, but blockchain technology was fundamentally a bad idea with no legitimate use cases.

The one legitimate use case of using blockchain for decentralized digital currency ends up being used by everyone who can’t transfer funds using normal routes. So most of the people using it are either bad actors or speculators Kind of like Tor. Bad actors ruin all kinds of things. People who only see technology will only go on to repeat the mistakes of the past because they lack the necessary domain knowledge to kno…

> So most of the people using it are either bad actors or speculators

"bad actors" according to their government, which could mean people who simply want the right to vote, or to live free from oppression, secret police, etc.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#233

Post by tromp »

codetrotter wrote: post #68
Forgeties79 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you’re trying to say, but honestly? All this does is hurt the reputation of crypto further. It’s yet another headline about crypto scams/ponzi scheme/etc. projected to an audience that is weary of being easily scammed out of money they believe to be safer elsewhere. No one who is skeptical or on the fence about crypto is going to see this headline and go “oh good! They must be catching the bad guys, so now…

> All this does is hurt the reputation of crypto further. There is exactly one legitimate “crypto”, and it is named Bitcoin. All else ranges from speculative promises about future possibilities (smart contracts etc) to straight up scams. Don’t let the people abusing the name of “crypto” detract from the greatness that was the invention of Bitcoin.

There's little illegitimate about a cryptocurrency whose emission averages 1 coin per second forever (not letting the current generation hoard nearly all the supply, or letting the founders get any) and otherwise simplifies many aspects of bitcoin.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#234

Post by jrflowers »

legitster wrote: post #69

Let's say I run a swap meet for people to buy and sell Pokémon cards. There are lots of scammers out there, but I promise people they are going to get good prices. And I even offer to buy cards off of people at good prices to drum up interest. Tomorrow, the SEC decides that Pokémon cards are securities (far-fetched, but work with me here) Suddenly, anyone buying and selling them becomes a criminal. I tell people via…

In this analogy you also had a service where people staked their Pokémon cards and advertised an APY% rate of return on those Pokémon cards, and had a service wherein people could use borrow and lend their Pokémon cards with the intent of financial gain.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#235

Post by tornato7 »

thrownaway89865 wrote: post #50

Would someone explain to me what the endgame of these fraudsters is? I mean, of course they are trying to get rich quick pulling these schemes but you would believe that they do it because they perceive that there is some sort of opportunity to cash out without inevitably going to prison some day, right? What is the thought process in the mind of these criminals when shit hits the fan? Maybe just hire very expensive…

FTX, 3AC, Celsius, etc. took the crypto pill and believed their investments were going to the moon with no way to stop it. That's why they took such risky bets (with customer money, too) - because in the certain case that Bitcoin hit $1M they would be trillionaires.

Of course because of this attitude there was way too much leverage in the system, which drove up prices to ATHs temporarily, but when the money supply ran out things quickly came back to reality and that leverage turned into bankruptcy.

Though in an alternate universe, the fed never raised rates, GBTC became a spot ETF, crypto fervor continued, and SBF is the richest man on earth having leveraged customer funds in a scam that actually worked out.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#236

Post by phailhaus »

bottlepalm wrote: post #139
alangibson wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> practical use cases This is satire right?

Moving large amounts of money 24/7 worldwide, outside of any bank, quickly, low transaction fee - pure P2P, and then being able to store it securely outside of a bank in your pocket. Have you dealt with wiring money before? How about holding large amounts of currency or gold outside of a bank? It sucks.

Transaction fees are based on volume, and can vary wildly up to $50. And you can't store Bitcoin "in your pocket", you can only store your key, like storing your bank password. Except if you lose your bank password, you don't lose all your money.

I've noticed this pattern with a lot of other crypto-evangelists: you put a lot of emphasis on being able to transact "outside of banks", but most people don't care. They just want convenience, and the safeguards that banks provide are worth it for them.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#237

Post by __loam »

legitster wrote: post #69

Let's say I run a swap meet for people to buy and sell Pokémon cards. There are lots of scammers out there, but I promise people they are going to get good prices. And I even offer to buy cards off of people at good prices to drum up interest. Tomorrow, the SEC decides that Pokémon cards are securities (far-fetched, but work with me here) Suddenly, anyone buying and selling them becomes a criminal. I tell people via…

Whether something is a security is up to the SEC and other federal agencies, not the companies making Crypto.

Ignorance of securities regulation isn't an excuse.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#238

Post by hutzlibu »

afterburner wrote: post #165
jack_pp wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When your house of cards comes tumbling down might as well take a bath to relieve the stress

No one can bother you in the bathroom.

I would say that is up for debate. For example in this case:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1995/01/06/8...

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#239

Post by DropInIn »

thrownaway89865 wrote: post #50

Would someone explain to me what the endgame of these fraudsters is? I mean, of course they are trying to get rich quick pulling these schemes but you would believe that they do it because they perceive that there is some sort of opportunity to cash out without inevitably going to prison some day, right? What is the thought process in the mind of these criminals when shit hits the fan? Maybe just hire very expensive…

Only a minority of criminals are ever arrested let alone convicted.

They hope to be in the majority who get away scot free and become one of the nouveau riche.

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