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Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#231

Post by hoosieree »

ok_dad wrote: post #200

It's the social media, like everyone here is saying, however the missing point around here is that it's hard to be happy and have great mental health when you have to struggle and hustle everyday to earn enough to live. Not to mention in America if you lose a job you lose health insurance. To me it's pretty clear that the real problem is the world sliding into a new "gilded age" and everyone can see it in real-time b…

Ted Chiang has an essay that also compares our current era to the gilded age:

https://www.newyorker.com/science/annals-of-artificial-intel...

It's ostensibly about AI but the deeper issue is concentration of wealth and power. Banning one harmful social media company (e.g. TikTok) does nothing to change the incentive structure. As long as harmful social media remains profitable, it will continue.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#232

Post by nancyhn »

Spooky23 wrote: post #213
alexb_ wrote: post #45

There is so much instant dismissal of this entire idea that smartphones are harmful in this thread, most of which is just "correlation is not causation". Yes, correlation does not equal causation. But when it makes logical sense why there would be correlation, there is no way to actually measure causation (we can't exactly give kids placebo phones), we keep seeing the same correlation over and over again, why is it b…

I think the audience skews male and single on HN. I have and regularly interact with kids 6-17 right now, as a parent, close uncle and baseball coach. The effect of phones and tablets in little kids is very obvious - I’ve see kids as young as 3 compulsively watching rubberized tablets under bleachers, in cars, etc. The younger kids get the shittiest devices - the cheap Amazon tablets. That device is a Skinner box tha…

> I’ve see kids as young as 3 compulsively watching rubberized tablets under bleachers, in cars, etc.

Arguably child abuse. It will be seen as giving a 3 yr old a cigarette or a beer.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#234

Post by abirch »

What I would like to see is the YEAR the person got the smart phone (as opposed to age). It'd be interesting to see if there's a correlation of more recent people getting smartphones and how difficult life is becoming (large student debt, stagnant wages, hard to buy a house, etc.)

I'm absolutely trying to avoid social media at all cost, but I want to see if the age of the first phone is an artifact of the current stresses of our youngest generations.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#235

Post by bbarn »

alexb_ wrote: post #45

There is so much instant dismissal of this entire idea that smartphones are harmful in this thread, most of which is just "correlation is not causation". Yes, correlation does not equal causation. But when it makes logical sense why there would be correlation, there is no way to actually measure causation (we can't exactly give kids placebo phones), we keep seeing the same correlation over and over again, why is it b…

There is also a negative parenting component that smartphones and tablets enable, which is they can be used to occupy a child without effort. The causation here is probably a mix of a lot of things but generally that society has rapidly changed without a lot of controls in place, smartphones being one that can't be ignored. The internet period is a big one. 25 years ago to call home from abroad was a 30-40$ phone call we did on a special occasion. Now we have instant access to anyone from anywhere.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#236

Post by boring_twenties »

afavour wrote: post #100
alexb_ wrote: post #45

There is so much instant dismissal of this entire idea that smartphones are harmful in this thread, most of which is just "correlation is not causation". Yes, correlation does not equal causation. But when it makes logical sense why there would be correlation, there is no way to actually measure causation (we can't exactly give kids placebo phones), we keep seeing the same correlation over and over again, why is it b…

> Smartphones give children the ability to bully eachother at a scale unlike any other. No, social media does. I think it's important to be specific about that because a smartphone is just a tool, same as a laptop or a desktop computer is (when I was a kid there was plenty of bullying that went on via AIM!) Having access to e.g. Wikipedia is of enormous benefit to young people. Having the means to easily call your pa…

> Having the means to easily call your parents if you end up in an emergency situation is beneficial.

Dumbphones satisfy this requirement just fine

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#237

Post by f1shy »

judge2020 wrote: post #208
tough wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you could simply give your kid a “dumb phone” for emergency use. I think you got it backwards, the emergency case is just the -excuse- parents use. In reality, it is about social pressure, not emergency use, all the other kids have phones, why can't I? Real phones, with apps and games and shit. FFS most parents will shove up an iDevice to their toddlers so they can play angry birds or whatever instead of caring for…

> FFS most parents will shove up an iDevice to their toddlers so they can play angry birds or whatever instead of caring for them more actively. This is such a 2010 way of thinking. Now they just hand their kids the YouTube app (signed into their parents' account) and let autoplay babysit their kid for hours a day.

Babyshit, instead of babysit…

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#238

Post by gjsman-1000 »

afavour wrote: post #100
alexb_ wrote: post #45

There is so much instant dismissal of this entire idea that smartphones are harmful in this thread, most of which is just "correlation is not causation". Yes, correlation does not equal causation. But when it makes logical sense why there would be correlation, there is no way to actually measure causation (we can't exactly give kids placebo phones), we keep seeing the same correlation over and over again, why is it b…

> Smartphones give children the ability to bully eachother at a scale unlike any other. No, social media does. I think it's important to be specific about that because a smartphone is just a tool, same as a laptop or a desktop computer is (when I was a kid there was plenty of bullying that went on via AIM!) Having access to e.g. Wikipedia is of enormous benefit to young people. Having the means to easily call your pa…

Should kids smoke?

Obviously not, it's bad for their health.

Is mental health less of a priority than physical health?

My case rests.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#239

Post by mordae »

alexb_ wrote: post #113
afavour wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Smartphones give children the ability to bully eachother at a scale unlike any other. No, social media does. I think it's important to be specific about that because a smartphone is just a tool, same as a laptop or a desktop computer is (when I was a kid there was plenty of bullying that went on via AIM!) Having access to e.g. Wikipedia is of enormous benefit to young people. Having the means to easily call your pa…

Smartphones are what enable social media to ruin the lives of children. You can access Wikipedia from your computer. You can call your parents from a flip phone. And hey, you can sometimes engage with social media from a computer. The problem is that smartphones give children access to social media in literally every single waking hour of their lives, making it a constant that they must be extremely aware of.

[flagged]

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#240

Post by boring_twenties »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #219
rcme wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, social media does. This is like the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument. Sure, smartphones are just a tool. But they're a tool used to access social media. Also, I'd argue it's not just social media causing this issue. AI filters that make you look more "beautiful" are commonplace now. Children see themselves through these filter and it may impact their self-esteem, e.g. "why do I look beautif…

I would actually be completely in favor on a ban on smartphone usage until about 16 years of age; which is also the age of consent in the majority of US states. Kids under 16 can possess a flip phone. It would be better for their mental health, encourage a longer childhood, reduce all kinds of social pressure, prevent TikTok-style inappropriate content serving [1] and pedophiles grooming, etc. The world is not going…

How do you define smartphone vs. tablet vs. dumbphone?

Where does a laptop with an LTE radio fit in?

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