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EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

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Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#231

Post by mmmmmbop »

meindnoch wrote: post #180
echelon wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for this! Next up: make "side loading" apps a thing. Do it with these stipulations: 1. Make it easy, part of the normal flow. Not hidden in an obscure panel or behind three or four dialogues. 2. Make it non-scary (no negs from Apple saying you'll destroy your device or safety) 3. Make it so it isn't called something negative like "side loading", but a part of normal user behavior: "download app", "web insta…

How about you simply buying something else instead of an iPhone?

Since this will be required by the DMA as mentioned in another comment, the more accurate phrasing would be "How about Apple simply not selling their phones in the EU (if they don't like it)?"

Just like nobody's forcing a consumer to buy an iPhone if they don't like it, nobody's forcing Apple to do business in the EU.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#232

Post by doikor »

throwaway50606 wrote: post #159
echelon wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for this! Next up: make "side loading" apps a thing. Do it with these stipulations: 1. Make it easy, part of the normal flow. Not hidden in an obscure panel or behind three or four dialogues. 2. Make it non-scary (no negs from Apple saying you'll destroy your device or safety) 3. Make it so it isn't called something negative like "side loading", but a part of normal user behavior: "download app", "web insta…

And then Facebook forces you to use their "web installer" that simply allows them to spy on everything you do on the phone :-)

The spying is still be illegal in EU without user consent no matter if it is technically possible or not.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#235

Post by Jochim »

sbuk wrote: post #140
hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least this thing should be clear. Apple's motto has always been "Think different". They were selling personal computers but wanted them to be different from PCs. In order to do that, they would introduce many changes that were presented as superior. And in fact, many (if not most) were actually excellent. Some, such as removal of ports, gluing parts together and making devices hard to repair, were plain user-hosti…

Removing ports is ironic as, other than headphone jacks from phones, USB type A being dropped from MacBooks (iMacs and Minis have always had USB Type A) in favour of USB-C is the port HN loves to moan about, and here we are, arguing for USB-C on an Apple device. The money, as others point out is a rounding error.

> USB type A being dropped from MacBooks (iMacs and Minis have always had USB Type A) in favour of USB-C is the port HN loves to moan about.

The switch to USB C wasn't the primary issue. The main complaint was that the laptop only had two ports: a 3.5mm headphone jack, and a single USB C for everything else. The previous iteration had 6.

People were angry that they were being forced to buy a hub if they fell into the ultra niche use case of wanting to charge while using any kind of peripheral at all.

Thinking about it, most USB hubs came with USB-A ports. I wonder if we'd have seen USB-A die off more rapidly if Apple had included a sensible number of ports on the Macbook.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#236

Post by rkagerer »

taf2 wrote: post #118

What happens when there is a better USB-C plug - isn't there a concern that locking into the current standard means in 50 years the EU is still stuck. I imagine we're in uncharted territory given in less then my lifetime USB was invented and has gone through at least 14 iterations e.g. it's been changing very fast. Unfortunately I fear even asking this question probably angers some, but I think it's an interesting qu…

I think it's a fair concern. I'm glad the EU is unafraid to hold Apple and other incumbents to account, but I'm not convinced the particular issue of mandating charging ports is one I'd want my government wading into. I'd rather see that focus put into eg. protecting privacy.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#237

Post by crote »

frankfrankfrank wrote: post #154
epolanski wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The regulations get updated, you aren't stuck on usb-c. What EU wants to avoid is Apple giving "unfair" advantages to their own chargers (which could either come from Apple making better chargers or artificially slowing third party ones) defeating the purpose of having less electronic waste.

I’m all for some kind of universality, but this authoritarian method does not strike me as a good idea. You lament their concern with fairness, by giving unfair advantages to the USB-C license holders/patent holders? I’m not even sure people understand that Apple also contributed heavily to the development of USB-C along with other companies, some of them European. The irony is that I believe the Lightning Connector,…

USB is managed by a nonprofit, and the specification is freely available for anyone to use. You do not need to pay them anything to make a USB device, nor do you need their permission for it.

You do need to pay them a (very reasonable) yearly fee if you wish to use the USB logo on your product though, and this includes agreeing to subject your product to compliance testing. As far as standards bodies go, USB is just about the furthest from "authoritarian" you can get.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#238

Post by detourdog »

dahfizz wrote: post #206
NikolaNovak wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's relevant, but I feel there's a good precedent already - didn't europe previously mandate Micro-USB, since like 2010?

No, this is a common misunderstanding. The EU previously issued a Memorandum of Understanding, which basically just asked phone manufacturer nicely to please use USB micro-B. There was no mandate or enforcement (obviously, because Apple never released a phone with micro-B). The USB-C law is an actual law which can't be ignored. The law will need to be updated when USB-D comes out.

It would have been ridiculous to drop lightening for micro-b. The whole e-waste argument I found lacking. I hope Apple makes a Freedom phone if the EU interferes too much with progress.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#240

Post by rkagerer »

crote wrote: post #220
taf2 wrote: post #118

What happens when there is a better USB-C plug - isn't there a concern that locking into the current standard means in 50 years the EU is still stuck. I imagine we're in uncharted territory given in less then my lifetime USB was invented and has gone through at least 14 iterations e.g. it's been changing very fast. Unfortunately I fear even asking this question probably angers some, but I think it's an interesting qu…

The law explicitly states that it has to be reviewed every couple of years to determine whether USB-C it is still the best choice, or there has been sufficient technological progress to warrant a switch to a newer standard. The fear for a "lock-in" is completely unfounded, as the EU previously quasi-mandated Micro USB and switching to USB-C was no issue whatsoever. Besides, nothing is stopping manufacturers from incl…

But if enough governments of the world mandate one technology... no innovator will have the appetite to market something better (whether that be Apple or a startup).
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