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Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

bloomberg.com

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Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#231

Post by CapstanRoller »

Mike_12345 wrote: post #228
CapstanRoller wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>plus my own direct personal experience How do you measure neurotoxicity on yourself? >Go take a massive bong hit, then tell me your mind and lungs feel healthy. Smoking is far from the only way to consume cannabis. >the smoke is carcinogenic (like tobacco) All smoke is carcinogenic, because it is smoke. This is not a function of cannabis, but a function of organic matter.

> How do you measure neurotoxicity on yourself? If you consume it, and it subjectively and objectively harms your mental health and cognitive abilities, then basic common sense and reasoning tells you it is harmful to the brain (neurotoxic). This is my opinion based on my experience. If you smoked this shit and it gave you an extra 20 IQ point boost, then congratulations. > All smoke is carcinogenic, because it is sm…

>and it subjectively and objectively harms your mental health and cognitive abilities,

Objectivity is good. So how often do you measure these things, what tools do you use, and what data do you collect? How do you analyze the data?

>then basic common sense and reasoning tells you it is harmful to the brain (neurotoxic).

"Neurotoxic" does not mean "alters your cognition"

"Alters your cognition" does not mean "harmful to the brain"

"Basic common sense" is not a synonym for "science"

>That's the point. Neurons don't get healthier from carcinogens.

There's no evidence to indicate that cannabis is carcinogenic or neurotoxic. In fact, there is evidence to suggest it has neuroprotective effects [0].

The carcinogens come from burning plant matter (or really, burning almost anything). There are many ways to consume cannabis and its derivative products without burning it or inhaling smoke. By your logic, all plant matter is carcinogenic because it's possible to burn it and inhale the smoke. Time to ban trees and vegetables?

[0] https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2020.5956...

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#232

Post by Mike_12345 »

CapstanRoller wrote: post #231
Mike_12345 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you measure neurotoxicity on yourself? If you consume it, and it subjectively and objectively harms your mental health and cognitive abilities, then basic common sense and reasoning tells you it is harmful to the brain (neurotoxic). This is my opinion based on my experience. If you smoked this shit and it gave you an extra 20 IQ point boost, then congratulations. > All smoke is carcinogenic, because it is sm…

>and it subjectively and objectively harms your mental health and cognitive abilities, Objectivity is good. So how often do you measure these things, what tools do you use, and what data do you collect? How do you analyze the data? >then basic common sense and reasoning tells you it is harmful to the brain (neurotoxic). "Neurotoxic" does not mean "alters your cognition" "Alters your cognition" does not mean "harmful…

> "Basic common sense" is not a synonym for "science".

I explained this was my opinion based on experience multiple times so you're just arguing with a strawman. You are absolutely wasting your time here and completely missed the point.

Try reading the article if you want to see a study showing scientific evidence of the neurotoxicity of weed.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#233

Post by naruhodo »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #99
whats_a_quasar wrote: post #41

There's a really interesting line of research that suggests Schizophrenia is a spectrum, rather than a binary. Lots of people have personality traits that are similar to schizophrenics or have genetic risk factors for the condition. Some of those people develop the full disorder, and some don't. There's evidence that the reason for the split is that psychosis is itself damaging. Once someone has a psychotic episode,…

Psychosis can do a lot of damage. I had a 4-month-long psychotic break that eventually led to me being diagnosed bipolar. It several years to recover from but I think some of the damage is permanent. I feel like I've lost a lot of memory function but I can't remember what things were like before. And it's difficult to separate that out from medication side-effects at this point. What I do know is caffeine gives me pa…

> What I do know is caffeine gives me panic attacks now (even decaf coffee is too much)

Coffee makes me jittery, but green tea gives me focused attention. I just don't enjoy the taste of green tea that much, so I drink coffee and take L-theanine (extract of green tea) pills to calm me down a bit.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#234

Post by CapstanRoller »

Mike_12345 wrote: post #232
CapstanRoller wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and it subjectively and objectively harms your mental health and cognitive abilities, Objectivity is good. So how often do you measure these things, what tools do you use, and what data do you collect? How do you analyze the data? >then basic common sense and reasoning tells you it is harmful to the brain (neurotoxic). "Neurotoxic" does not mean "alters your cognition" "Alters your cognition" does not mean "harmful…

> "Basic common sense" is not a synonym for "science". I explained this was my opinion based on experience multiple times so you're just arguing with a strawman. You are absolutely wasting your time here and completely missed the point. Try reading the article if you want to see a study showing scientific evidence of the neurotoxicity of weed.

>I explained this was my opinion based on experience

Yes, that's the subjective part, but you also argued that it is objectively neurotoxic. Where is your evidence for that? Where is the objectivity?

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#235

Post by Mike_12345 »

CapstanRoller wrote: post #234
Mike_12345 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Basic common sense" is not a synonym for "science". I explained this was my opinion based on experience multiple times so you're just arguing with a strawman. You are absolutely wasting your time here and completely missed the point. Try reading the article if you want to see a study showing scientific evidence of the neurotoxicity of weed.

>I explained this was my opinion based on experience Yes, that's the subjective part, but you also argued that it is objectively neurotoxic. Where is your evidence for that? Where is the objectivity?

> Where is the objectivity?

Objectively worse performance in life and in mentally taxing work. It really isn't that complicated.

Go smoke a massive bong hit then do a calculus exam and compare your score.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#236

Post by CapstanRoller »

Mike_12345 wrote: post #235
CapstanRoller wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I explained this was my opinion based on experience Yes, that's the subjective part, but you also argued that it is objectively neurotoxic. Where is your evidence for that? Where is the objectivity?

> Where is the objectivity? Objectively worse performance in life and in mentally taxing work. It really isn't that complicated. Go smoke a massive bong hit then do a calculus exam and compare your score.

You're talking in circles.

>Objectively worse performance in life and in mentally taxing work.

Very interesting! I'd love to learn more. Please show us the data supporting this assertion.

>Go smoke a massive bong hit then do a calculus exam and compare your score.

I don't smoke, so I took a cannabis edible or vaped some concentrate. My calculus exam score improved. Now what? You still haven't provided any evidence for your claim that cannabis is objectively neurotoxic.

"Objective" is not a synonym for "strongly-held opinion"

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#237

Post by mise_en_place »

coffeebeqn wrote: post #211
mise_en_place wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a high correlation between intelligence and mental illness. For example, John Nash also had paranoid schizophrenia. The way your mind encodes information seems to be correlated with perceptual disturbances.

I wonder if that’ll be the case for AI?

AI will never have qualia so no. The closest you’ll get is something like LLama-7B hallucinating output.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#238

Post by xupybd »

Mike_12345 wrote: post #174
xupybd wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting question. Could someone have a serious mental health disorder that would never manifest without certain triggers. I'm not qualified to guess but I suspect it would be possible. Then if it's possible the rate that it happens would be important. If it's rare then it might not be important in the discussion of causes of mental health problems.

Isn't that the entire point of the article and study that we are commenting on?

Yes, the article covers one drug and one mental illness. I'm extrapolating to all recreational drugs and mental illnesses.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#239

Post by piperswe »

operatingthetan wrote: post #133
muffles wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once someone has a psychotic episode, they are much likelier to have more. An anecdotal observation of this in media is when comedian Owen Benjamin took a "Stars of Death" edible on the Joey Diaz podcast. It was argued that this was the point his big break with reality occurred (delusions and conspiracy seen everywhere). Another interesting observation is that THC seems to intensify the effect of amphetamines like…

Plus that combo gives guaranteed insomnia. The user wakes up from whatever sleep they did get, takes the speed again, and it's like nothing happened. This continued loss of sleep compounds over time and can contribute to psychosis.

For some with ADHD, stimulants can have a neutral or positive effect on sleep. I know I can have the best, calmest naps after I've taken Vyvanse. Therefore, I wouldn't say "guaranteed" insomnia.

Once it wears off though, my sleep's not great. At least it's no worse than it was before starting medication, I've just never been able to sleep well.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#240

Post by calvinmorrison »

CapstanRoller wrote: post #224
MagicMoonlight wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don’t have it and then taking it makes you have it then that is causing it

There's a big difference between a direct cause and a potential trigger for a condition with specific endogenous prerequisites. There is no universal trend of people consuming cannabis and developing schizophrenia.

Is it like a catalyst?
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