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Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

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Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#231

A Utah resident connects to a server in California, controlled by a company in California. This seems like interstate commerce to me, and is thus regulated by federal law, not the laws of individual states. Consider Wickard v. Filburn[0], in which the courts ruled that a farmer growing crops on his own land, to feed to his own animals, all within a single state, was participating in "interstate commerce". Given this…

> A Utah resident connects to a server in California, controlled by a company in California. This seems like interstate commerce to me, and is thus regulated by federal law, not the laws of individual states.

Interstate commerce is generally subject to concurrent jurisdiction of the federal and state governments, except that state laws which discriminate against out-of-state trade are presumptively illegal, state law cannot negate federal law, and federal law can explicitly (and sometimes implicitly) forbid state regulation of the same conduct. It is not the case that the mere fact that it involves interstate commerce automatically, without federal law addressing the subject, precludes state regulation.

OTOH, to the extent that the elements of site design likely to be challenged under this are very closely related to the functions protected by Section 230, which does include a preemption clause, even if this is otherwise Constitutional applying it is going to often be tricky in practice.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>(F) interactive gaming, virtual gaming, or an online service, that allows the creation and uploading of content for the purpose of interactive gaming, edutainment, or associated entertainment, So Roblox, arguably quite harmful to children, is specifically carved out. That's great.

Whats going on at Roblox? Curious, as a parent myself.

Isaw twice similar comments but I didn't spend time to found it :/

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#233
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call their bluff - don’t make your service available in Utah.

I live in Utah. If that's what happens, that would be awesome! "Sorry kids, no fb/tiktok/insta and there's nothing I can do about it. None of them work where we live" Would be a huge win for all parents. No social media, and we don't have to be the bad guys taking it away.

You realize these companies will quiet-fire all employees residing in Utah and never hire there again? That this will place massive negative pressure on all software salaries in Utah? Possibly on all software salaries outside of deep blue states?

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL, according to this, my family's group text thread is illegal under this law, as DMs can only be between 2 people. EDIT: serious question; would Slack be professional networking or, how does that work under this bill? It's DMing for business, but it isn't really networking.

Group chats wouldn't be illegal, that's not an online service where you sign up and make a profile etc. This applies only to sites that would serve you random content from random users... i.e. Social Media.

Most Slack usage I’m aware of doesn’t fit the description, but some does. Quite a lot of Discord usage however…

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#235
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure many of us wouldn't have been a programmer if we hadn't had access to SO/Github around 17.

> I'm sure many of us wouldn't have been a programmer if we hadn't had access to SO/Github around 17. I'm sure many of us didn't have any access to StackOverflow and GitHub when we were around 17 years old, because StackOverflow and GitHub didn't exist yet. For several of us, git didn't exist yet. Heck, for some of us, the web didn't exist yet! Kids these days...

I’m kind of surprised but also not surprised in the outrage over the “draconian bulls*t.” The problem I have as a parent is that I can see it causing real social damage to adults around me, my own kids, and kids around my kids. Anti-social behavior, Disrespect for authority, extreme violence is easy to see and normalized (stuff that would normally be considered traumatic), wokeness and anti-wokeness is normalized (must we all have such strong opinions?). I’m talking behavior way more at extreme ends of the polarized spectrum and at earlier ages than what I grew up around.

It’s basically force-fed opinions at a global scale, how can that possibly be healthy? We can barely fathom how this media impacts adults as it stands. All this clear evidence aside, I feel like it’s obvious, how can the absence of these things do any measurable harm to kids?

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There’s exceptions for email, Netflix, Amazon, news, traditional media kinds of sites. The fact that there are 20 categories of services exempted shows that this is a terrible bill that is based on punishing specific actors and not regulating data privacy or child wellbeing in a meaningful way. for reference, line 165 to 224 of that link are the exceptions: "Social media platform" does not include an online service…

LOL, according to this, my family's group text thread is illegal under this law, as DMs can only be between 2 people. EDIT: serious question; would Slack be professional networking or, how does that work under this bill? It's DMing for business, but it isn't really networking.

> as DMs can only be between 2 people.

Nothing in the law restricts to DMs being between two people, it just distinguishes them from public content.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#237
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it puts the burden of enforcement on tech platforms rather than the kids' parents What else do you expect? When tech companies make phones secure enough for the NSA, every app has passwords, and most apps have disappearing messages, how exactly do you expect parents to monitor what their kids are doing? All the "parental monitoring" apps do is check how much time kids are using the phone. They give zero info on wha…

I’m not really sure if I disagree with you, but in the past we’re parents really able to see everything their children were doing? Like telephones did not record conversations, they were effectively “disappearing messages”. I guess the argument would be technology enables children to do secret stuff without any of the obvious signs, like sneaking out in the middle of the night?

Telephones did not record, but they did have a log of incoming and outgoing numbers. So it was possible to check if a child was suddenly talking to someone new.

> I guess the argument would be technology enables children to do secret stuff without any of the obvious signs, like sneaking out in the middle of the night?

Yes, it was rather obvious when a teen was behaving secretive, or there were middle of the night calls.

Privacy is important, but if your teen was suddenly displaying secretive behavior you could tell.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#238
post #112
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And is that bad or something? If you want to use a harmful product (and make no mistake social apps are harmful), then being careful about who is using it is a good idea.

This law affects GitHub. You shouldn’t be able to upload code or submit a pull request anonymously?

GitHub knowing who you are does not prevent you from being anonymous to the rest of the world.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>(F) interactive gaming, virtual gaming, or an online service, that allows the creation and uploading of content for the purpose of interactive gaming, edutainment, or associated entertainment, So Roblox, arguably quite harmful to children, is specifically carved out. That's great.

Whats going on at Roblox? Curious, as a parent myself.

This article and thread lists some of the issues: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32014754

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure many of us wouldn't have been a programmer if we hadn't had access to SO/Github around 17.

I'm sure our parents would have all let us sign up for a programming site. This bill still allows for that.

> I’m sure our parents would have all let us sign up for a programming site. This bill still allows for that.

But would the site let you sign up if even with parental permission if it had to do additional identification verification to identify that the permission was from your parent, and was liable for (1) actual damages if you got addicted [0] because of some element of their site design, and (2) huge ($250,000 per feature) penalties if they also didn’t do quarterly audits to identify, and within 30 days after identification eliminate, any feature which might addict you?

How many programming sites see minors in general, much less Utah minors specifically, as that important to their mission to take on the extra costs and risks this bill imposes on serving that population?

[0] Using an intentionally broad definition of addiction

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