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Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

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Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#231

Post by Blikkentrekker »

milgra wrote: post #109
burntalmonds wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"..what Apple is doing to something which should allow you to work is just atrocious.." Anyone know what his specific issues are?

I don't know the exact issues but might be related to the issues why I left Apple : I was developing a very successful little tool for MacOS ( https://github.com/milgra/macmediakeyforwarder ) which listened for keypresses. From 2016 to 2019 it became harder and harder to install it because apple added more and more restrictions to apps like this. By 2019, you had to enable the application explicitly to listen for eve…

The situation with Wayland is actually worse than this by far.

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#232

Post by ccouzens »

bityard wrote: post #119
garciasn wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this continues to be why Linux suffers with the mass market. I ran Linux solely from 1997 to 2004 on the desktop and switched back because it was such a pain in the ass to manage. Every time I go back, it just isn’t catching up to the mainstream OSs’ ability to manage without “futzing”. My M2 currently lasts all day on the battery while spending half of it on conference calls and half of it writing code. Nothing…

I get irrationally angry when people imply that Mac and Linux are somehow similar, or interchangeable. They are not! Not even close! I think this is where a lot of the negative opinion of Linux comes from, people lament some issue they have with their Mac and someone else will say, "oh you should try Linux, it's really good now." And so they do and are surprised to find that experience is vastly different. Linux is a…

I prefer Linux (fedora with gnome) because it needs less tinkering out the box.

It's the basic things like not having to install third party utilities to have window centric window management (as opposed to app centric window management). Or being able to plug my Android phone in and be able to browse the files without additional utilities.

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#233

Post by fundad »

stametseater wrote: post #212
bmitc wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An Intel NUC is not much more than the top tier Raspberry Pi, once you get a case and stuff it needs, but is orders of magnitude faster. I got one and installed Linux Mint on it. It's a much, much better system than the Raspberry Pi 4 I have.

I was using a Raspberry Pi v1 as my NAS for years. It was fast enough and got the job done to my satisfaction. However when that pi eventually died and I tried to replace it, I found that v4 Pis were 1) just as expensive as NUCs, and 2) not even available for purchase anywhere that I could find. So now I've got a NUC filling that role. The Raspberry Pi org has really dropped the ball.

That is unfortunate about the R Pi. I got a 3B+ a year before 2020 and it better last a long time.

I think the foundation’s pressures are similar to Apple’s pressure to upsell their paid service all over the UI. That’s what I resent about Apple; it’s enshittification like with EBay, Amazon and even Google bugging me to sign in to make searches.

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#234

Post by Blikkentrekker »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #130
milgra wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the exact issues but might be related to the issues why I left Apple : I was developing a very successful little tool for MacOS ( https://github.com/milgra/macmediakeyforwarder ) which listened for keypresses. From 2016 to 2019 it became harder and harder to install it because apple added more and more restrictions to apps like this. By 2019, you had to enable the application explicitly to listen for eve…

I think permission systems are bound to wind up in all desktop operating systems, eventually. They’re already on Linux for those using Flatpak. Trusting random third party binaries with access to everything is increasingly too much of a gamble, even for more technical users. That said, I agree that the macOS implementation has issues. It’s tricky though, because if they make it as simple as confirm/deny dialogs, you’…

These permission systems in practice don't really do as much to shield users as many think though.

People often just drop the word “sandbox” and say “applications are sandboxed” and that that means that they're safe but it's really not that simple in practice. What often happens is that such applications still need to communicate over some socket with some server that was never designed for such a sandbox, say PulseAudio, and in many cases can then simply instruct the outer daemon to do whatever they want with full permission, either by design, or by oversight since the no one who wrote the outer daemon thought about it at the time since they were never designed for that purpose.

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#235

Post by kagakuninja »

web3-is-a-scam wrote: post #133
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there are specific issues. The problem is that with each release of macOS usability, reliability and performance regress. If you're interested in these things and not so much in "bling" and questionable new features, then you'd share probably Ken's "atrocious" opinion. An example is the latest System Preferences. It's virtually unusable.

Seems overblown to me, been a macos user for over a decade and the ios-ification o f the mac hasn't been a big deal for me. My greybeard workflows still work the same (everything in iterm, using vim, tmux, all the "standard stuff"), sometimes updating xcode is a pain but w/e. Homebrew still chugging along. Parallels is fantastic. Performance of the M1 Max on my new mac studio is just heavenly. The changes to macos ha…

Been using Macs exclusively, since the iPhone came out. At some point I noticed a "do not disturb" icon displayed on the top UI bar, something that somehow got turned on after upgrading to Ventura. It took over half an hour of googling and trying random shit before I was able to turn it off. Yes, Settings is a UI disaster, even ignoring that...

Goofy shit like this randomly happens, particularly after OS upgrades. I remember some crazy hell where I couldn't finish the OS install on a new Mac, because Apple decided that Apple IDs must be email addresses, and my ancient ID was not. Required a call to customer support.

And the "untrusted developer" shit always bites me in the ass every couple months or so... It is particularly painful when using pro audio interfaces, which will just suddenly stop working every now and then. It requires a magic key-press during a reboot to clear some kind of special RAM.

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#236

Post by BearOso »

burntalmonds wrote: post #75
kjhughes wrote: post #30

For those who might prefer text over video: Q: What's your operating system of choice, today? A: I have for most of my life, because I was sort of born into it, run Apple. Right now, recently, meaning within the last five years, I’ve become more and more and more depressed and [Laughter] what Apple is doing to something which should allow you to work is just atrocious, but they are taking a lot of space and time to d…

"..what Apple is doing to something which should allow you to work is just atrocious.." Anyone know what his specific issues are?

What bothers me is how they're charging developers to build for their system and semi-require server verification for programs to run.

In the earlier Mac OS X era they used to be very open (and free) with their tools and actively encouraging.

It feels very backwards now. For example, Microsoft was really restrictive with its expensive tools at that time and gradually opened them up. It's like the two companies reversed positions. As a kid, I could never afford to buy pro dev tools, and while it's not as expensive currently, I think that's the way Apple is headed. It's not going to help more people get into programming.

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#237

Post by wpm »

wkat4242 wrote: post #148
kitsunesoba wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think permission systems are bound to wind up in all desktop operating systems, eventually. They’re already on Linux for those using Flatpak. Trusting random third party binaries with access to everything is increasingly too much of a gamble, even for more technical users. That said, I agree that the macOS implementation has issues. It’s tricky though, because if they make it as simple as confirm/deny dialogs, you’…

"Random third party binaries" are not something Linux users really use, generally. Most of it is open source and comes through the repository.

Yeah, because I definitely double check the provenance of the 30 dependencies that blow past my terminal when I apt install something, that I also very much looked into and aren’t blindly typing commands from Stack Overflow into my terminal because I’m trying to solve some problem.

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#238

Post by crazygringo »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #107
speedgoose wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest system preferences are an improvement to me. It was a mess before and it’s still a mess but the app layout makes it easier to browse, and at least it’s consistent with iOS.

It forces you to search to do anything useful, since the grouping is all over the place, and the search feature is really poor. > and at least it’s consistent with iOS What a huge win for Mac users.

Grouping has always been all over the place. If anything the new grouping is more intuitive.

And search works better than it used to as well. To me it's been entirely improvements.

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#239

Post by crazygringo »

lanna wrote: post #103
speedgoose wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest system preferences are an improvement to me. It was a mess before and it’s still a mess but the app layout makes it easier to browse, and at least it’s consistent with iOS.

Why does a desktop OS need to be consistent with a 5" touchscreen phone?

Because it's confusing to have two ways of doing things when one way works just fine.

Why would you ever want added cognitive complexity?

If things need to be different then sure. But if they can be unified in a way that works great for both then please do!

Honestly, with their tight integration, I don't even think of watchOS and iOS and macOS as being so separate. They're all just a kind of "appleOS" that gets applied to different form factors. So UX unification is ideal wherever it makes sense.

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#240

Post by amelius »

equivocates wrote: post #164
milgra wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the exact issues but might be related to the issues why I left Apple : I was developing a very successful little tool for MacOS ( https://github.com/milgra/macmediakeyforwarder ) which listened for keypresses. From 2016 to 2019 it became harder and harder to install it because apple added more and more restrictions to apps like this. By 2019, you had to enable the application explicitly to listen for eve…

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but I prefer my OS put several hurdles in front of a key logging app.

They should have built this in from the start then, not semi-randomly break things.
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