Earlier quoted context omitted.
That could be true, but America and Europe did the same thing before they got rich. Isn't it a bit hypocritical to wag our finger at developing countries now for doing the same thing that our countries did?
Can you provide a source for your statement?
Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India
231–240 of 267 posts
Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India
#232Vote with your dollars, people. Don't buy Apple and Foxconn products if you care about the wellbeing of workers.
So don't buy any electronics? It's pretty hard to avoid Foxconn they are used by almost everyone.
Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
Capital follows the state. The fact that capital also often guides the state is a flaw of the state. Capital is just people doing the job they were hired to do, often in a corporate framework, legally obliged to maximize profit and shareholder value. There’s definitely a feedback cycle, but the source of all control and governance is the guys with the guns and prisons.
> Capital is just people doing the job they were hired to do No, that's the people that are employed by the capital. If you do entertain this worldview, then at the very least do it correctly. The few people usually described as capital are the owners of the vast majority of wealth in the developed world. And they're most assuredly not following the state. They're constantly pushing for unequal legislation and exploi…
You ascribe way too much power to the individuals who have claim to capital vs the organizations that manage it. It’s really common to do so, it’s easier to vilify a person than a process, and conspiracies are really exciting. I’ve worked in the worlds of those that hold claim to capital and I know for a fact that yes they can make decisions given their claim that most people can’t, they are actually less likely to see their decisions happen because it’s carried out through a large organization. They’re also often subject to boards and other control entities. But more than anything, they’re not evil super geniuses. They’re people like you and me that randomly emerged as the richest people on earth through whatever process that selected them - business success, investing, birth. I knew one guy who struggled with profound depression and low self confidence but was the heir to a largely privately held major corporation. He would gain lots of weight and his jacket would rip down the back before he went out to talk to investors and he was so depressed he couldn’t care - he had to have handlers to change his jacket for him. Some are bipolar and their evil conspiracy like behavior is because they can’t control their mania and no one will tell them they’re sick. Etc. So, yeah. I don’t buy that it’s a few people pulling the strings of the world in a nefarious plot to make women in India work 12 hours a day because they hate women in India and want to see them suffer for profit. It’s a set of non human organisms made up of humans making millions of micro decisions at all times towards the goal of maximizing shareholder value. It behaves like a slime mold or amoeba, as I said elsewhere, a gas, and invades all spaces it can that are advantageous to it.
Here’s a concrete example: is Jeff Bezos powerful? Or is Amazon what is powerful? Jeff Bezos doesn’t work at Amazon any more. Is Amazon less powerful? Who is the Jeff Bezos at Amazon now? Andy Jassy? No. Andy is an amazing person, but he doesn’t have the power Jeff had at Amazon. So who is it in your evil capitalist genius rubric that pulls the Amazon strings? Absolutely no one. It pulls its own strings.
Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
True. We wouldn’t want women to be able to earn as much as men in India. It’s important to take a principled stand against gender parity and punish these guys with your wallet.
Is your argument seriously that it’s unfair that women aren’t overworked in India
My argument is that it’s unfair that there’s one set of rules for men and one for women. “Overworked” is qualitative call. 4 days at 12 hours is what we are talking about here, which is not an uncommon labor structure in the west or east and has a lot of advantages to the worker. It’s not 12 hours a day 7 days a week. It’s 48 hours a week, a standard work week in India. Those shifts also pay better, and have more contiguous time off. Why, on the basis of their gender, were women not allowed to compete for those jobs against men?
Note absolutely no one is forcing anyone to do absolutely anything. It’s just opening the possibility for women to hold a job any man can have. Who are you to tell them they’re wrong for wanting it and should enjoy their station as a woman?
Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India
#235Encouraging women to work, and go work more hours has to be one of the biggest swindles in modern society. It leads to less time to focus on children, puts more pressure on families, and gives more influence to outside factors like government, media, and businesses on children, instead of parents.
Frankly I’m waiting for when UBI can be more disbursed and people can work for useful things as they please without the millstone at their necks.
Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
I believe you but I don't fully understand this. Can anyone suggest an accurate, neutral title, preferably using a representative phrase* from the article? If so, we can edit it. * https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
The title of the referenced article itself should be good enough "Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts and night shifts for women at iPhone production in India". The original poster omitted the words "and night shifts" for some reason.
OP here. Tried to add that but HN has a limit to the length of the title and couldn't fit it.
Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you provide a source for your statement?
https://ourworldindata.org/working-hours https://eh.net/encyclopedia/hours-of-work-in-u-s-history/ https://www.timesizing.com/history-of-the-american-workweek/
and slaves before that and share croppers after slaves.
Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Capital is just people doing the job they were hired to do No, that's the people that are employed by the capital. If you do entertain this worldview, then at the very least do it correctly. The few people usually described as capital are the owners of the vast majority of wealth in the developed world. And they're most assuredly not following the state. They're constantly pushing for unequal legislation and exploi…
You ascribe way too much power to the individuals who have claim to capital vs the organizations that manage it. It’s really common to do so, it’s easier to vilify a person than a process, and conspiracies are really exciting. I’ve worked in the worlds of those that hold claim to capital and I know for a fact that yes they can make decisions given their claim that most people can’t, they are actually less likely to s…
You can point fingers at a corporation all you want but that corporation is still made of people making decisions and doing the behaviors
Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does she work more than 40 hours / week? If so, she very likely gets paid 1.5x for any hours worked above 40. Do you think Apple and Foxconn are paying Indian women time and a half for hours above 40? That said, I'm nearly 100% certain that these women would rather have these jobs working in a clean facility than the alternative.
They have 48 h weeks and the ability to add an extra 50 hours per month. There's a name for places with a 60 hour work week: they are called sweat shops.
Someone tell the people working at startups.
Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
You ascribe way too much power to the individuals who have claim to capital vs the organizations that manage it. It’s really common to do so, it’s easier to vilify a person than a process, and conspiracies are really exciting. I’ve worked in the worlds of those that hold claim to capital and I know for a fact that yes they can make decisions given their claim that most people can’t, they are actually less likely to s…
You can point fingers at a corporation all you want but that corporation is still made of people making decisions and doing the behaviors
It is. But I assume you work at a corporation, or for a corporation, or have some affiliation with the decisions of a corporation, or have done in the past. Me too. We are all a part of the problem.