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Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

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Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#231

Post by shock-value »

manmal wrote: post #213
shock-value wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know or care what Chinese internal media is reporting — this is a significant story in the U.S. that is getting less play than it should. It’s an ecological disaster with potentially significant health concerns, and likely involves corporate negligence as well as a failure of governance by both political parties who recently forced rail workers back to work despite complaints related to possible causes of thi…

Another comment here brought up that this topic is big on Tiktok, which is indeed affiliated with the Chinese government.

As far as I am concerned, if the Chinese state is pushing a grassroots recognition of this event that could lead to accountability and improved safety practices, then they are doing us a public service.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#232

Post by Filligree »

whamlastxmas wrote: post #124
chriscappuccio wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dose makes the poison

Unfortunately a single rail car can carry in excess of 30,000 gallons of dosing, and a single train can have several millions of gallons all together.

How many ppm is that?

Tongue in cheek, but assume it all got spread out over the city, I suppose.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#233

Post by mrguyorama »

lm28469 wrote: post #176
korroziya wrote: post #60

Train derailments are the latest conspiracy theory for tinfoil hats right now. I guess food processing plant fires fell out of vogue. "nO oNe iS rEpOrTiNg aBoUt tHiS" cries the conspiracy theorist reporting about the incident using screencaps from news reports.

It's not completely unreported but compare it to the few balloons you guys popped in the last week that made international news it's weird. Especially since these balloons are 99.9% mass hysteria

One is about global geopolitical games and a possible upcoming war in the next few decades.

The other is a local environmental disaster. There's a national angle in pointing out this is exactly what the rail unions told us would happen but is even Fox News reporting on that?

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#234

Post by laurentbh »

jsonne wrote: post #67

I've been seeing content on Tiktok where even 100 miles away they're seeing small dead fish which is apparently according to the folks making the videos a massive red flag. In general I grow super weary of companies and the government downplaying these sorts of things. It seems to constantly follow the pattern of people saying "It's not that bad" and then only years later do we actually see the horrific health and en…

yeah, it's not that bad when you are in DC or on Wall Street

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#235

Post by Apocryphon »

notch898a wrote: post #192
slantedview wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what's the evidence that this derailment had anything to do with the attempted rail workers strike? AFAIK, the primary issue there was sick leave--and, generally, a more humane work schedule. The workers had many other complaints, including companies forcing workers to drive dangerously long trains with a single person staffing it. That seems absolutely relevant when you have a train car burning and nobody notices.

If you drive a vehicle knowing it is unsafe shouldn't you refuse? Any other vehicle and we would hold the worker accountable for not refusing such a negligent order. The news articles about the rail workers complaining it was unsafe seems to show they are complicit as they continued operating in unsafe conditions anyway.

I wonder if anything disempowering happened in that industry recently that might have discouraged rail workers from speaking out

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#236

Post by snozolli »

ska wrote: post #226
BalinKing wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t “grow weary” a common phrase, though?

so is "grow wary", which is the potential problem.

"Grow wary" isn't a thing.

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=grow+weary%2Cg...

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#237

Post by mindslight »

ajross wrote: post #211
mindslight wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ultimate problem is the breakdown in trust of our institutions to get this right - the overriding incentives are wrong at every level. Burning a product because it would have otherwise needed to be recovered and transported under pressure seems like exactly the kind of amoral tradeoff a company would take, not particularly caring about the combustion products apart from what they can legally get away with. As far…

> Burning a product because it would have otherwise needed to be recovered and transported under pressure I don't think that's correct. It was leaking. No recovery was feasible. The options at hand were "let it leak" or "burn it", and burning it was the right choice. Now, maybe you don't believe that. And of course I believe it on faith. But real chemical engineers are making these decisions, not yahoos on HN. And th…

> It was leaking. No recovery was feasible

I do not see how leaking would preclude recovery. It's likely "feasible" is shorthand for economically feasible. And from the manifest linked elsewhere in the thread, all but one vinyl chloride cars are listed as "car did not leak".

> the fact that you perceive a "breakdown in trust" of those engineers doesn't make them wrong

No, what would make them wrong (as in, not doing everything they can to minimize harm) is the orders/incentives coming down from management. Boss says to do the cheapest option possible, they look at the top-line combustion products and regulations regarding releasing them, and sign off on the cheaper burn plan. We get the same thing in software with the zeitgeist of user surveillance. It's an overwhelming ethical violation, but everyone's gotta eat and if you rock the boat it costs you personally.

> If you want them to be wrong you need to provide evidence yourself

I'm not responsible for releasing chemicals into residential areas, nor for lighting them on fire. It's incumbent upon the railway and responders to prove that their actions were justified and correct in minimizing the damage to bystanders.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#238

Post by yunwal »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #142
nimbius wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> can make people dizzy and drowsy LMFAO vinyl chloride is a multi-organ carcinogen...its literally one of the quickest ways to stage 4 right up there with Benzene exposure. phosgene was also part of the release when Ohio decided a "controlled burn" of the vinyl chloride was somehow a good idea. the plume could be seen from commercial flights. honest to god the damage control media outlets are attempting in the midst…

> the damage control media outlets are attempting That suggests intent. While I am as cynical as the next person I wouldn't make a claim like that without also citing evidence to back it up.

Time and time again, even media sources that we're told are trustworthy and rigorous show that they'll shill for corporate interests if given enough financial incentive and a promising enough narrative[0][1][2][3][4]. At what point do we just assume that financial conflict of interest is inherent in how media reports on issues?

[0] - https://www.coindesk.com/layer2/2022/11/15/lets-talk-about-t...

[1] - https://theintercept.com/2022/08/17/new-york-times-dan-goldm...

[2] - https://theintercept.com/2016/01/29/nyt-outside-spending/

[3] - https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/16/democrats...

[4] - https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/tax-bezos-help-worke...

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#239

Post by whamlastxmas »

petesergeant wrote: post #170
whamlastxmas wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand his intended message, I was just being snarky, which I accept is crappy of me and against the guidelines. Just tired of the mindless xenophobia and American exceptionalism despite the US being objectively one of the most, if the the most, problematic countries on the planet.

> Just tired of the mindless xenophobia and American exceptionalism The BBC is not American, though?

The UK and the BBC have a long history of being lackeys for the American war machine [0], there's been ongoing tension between the UK/BBC and China for years [1], and American and UK intelligence agencies work very closely together and have made joint anti-China remarks increasingly often.[2]

Lastly, despite the exact link being BBC, it's also pushed plenty by American media outlets.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutton_Inquiry

[1] https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/14/media/bbc-china-battle/index....

[2] https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/06/politics/fbi-mi5-wray-china/i...

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#240

Post by Workaccount2 »

MrOwnPut wrote: post #86
Workaccount2 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally flammable things burn in a fire.

So a guess then, that's disappointing. Generally things don't burn 100% perfectly. Unless you were onsite testing what was in the runoff and have the results, you're speculating.

There is certainly runoff, the question is there enough to perpetually poison hundreds of billions of gallons of water and make it through water treatment.

Clearing the first hurdle is hard, clearing the second is even harder.

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