The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z • Hacker News Board

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#231

Post by Avshalom » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 9:26 PM UTC

dionidium wrote: post #174

joecot wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a millennial. First we were told that we needed the college degree for a job. Any degree would do. So everyone went and got a college degree, and since so many people had it it wasn't a status symbol anymore, so that wasn't enough to get a good middle class job. And then a bunch of people were told they shouldn't have gotten those degrees and they were worthless. Then we were told to go into STEM. So lots of peop…

> First we were told that we needed the college degree for a job. Any degree would do. Something strange is happening here that I can't quite understand. Jokes about English majors asking if you want fries with that are way older than me and I first started college in 1999. Yes, I heard a persistent low rumbling of "go to college," but the idea that "any degree would do" is alien to me. Of course I knew that some maj…

>> Jokes about English majors asking if you want fries

Sure but that never stopped anyone from pulling out BLS statistics showing life-time earning potential of an BA in english vs a highschool diploma.

But the point of bringing up "any degree" isn't that any student thought (or any guidance counselor said) that underwater basket weaving and electrical engineering had the same potential it's that we were told to go to college even if we had no idea what we wanted to do with our lives. A degree was the important thing even if it was in something that we didn't want, even if we didn't want a degree at all.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#232

Post by slillibri » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 9:26 PM UTC

fleddr wrote: post #222

If I had to do it all over again, I'd be a plumber. You're not stationary, you're on the move and your day has variety. You spend a lot of time in the physical world and meet lots of people. Your work might at times be smelly but is rewarding in a very direct way. You helped solve a tangible problem and your customers are grateful for it. The range of problems to solve is large, and if you widen your skills, you can…

Sure, but the downside is sometimes having to literally deal with other people’s shit.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#233

Post by welshwelsh » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 9:27 PM UTC

joecot wrote: post #96

Avshalom wrote: post #36

A lot of these threads devolve into "have you tried paying more" but I'd also like to highlight "have you actually tried telling Gen Z that". I'm 35, from basically as early as I can remember until sophmore year of college I was told constantly by every adult (and I mean every adult not just the ones that had degrees) in my life to go to college, get a degree, any degree. So yeah I went to college. It was aggressivel…

I'm a millennial. First we were told that we needed the college degree for a job. Any degree would do. So everyone went and got a college degree, and since so many people had it it wasn't a status symbol anymore, so that wasn't enough to get a good middle class job. And then a bunch of people were told they shouldn't have gotten those degrees and they were worthless. Then we were told to go into STEM. So lots of peop…

>since so many people had it it wasn't a status symbol anymore, so that wasn't enough to get a good middle class job

This makes it sound like a degree is worth less today than it was in the past, which is not true. The income and wealth gap between college degree holders and non-degree holders is higher than at any point in history, and it grows bigger very year.

Most degrees have an unemployment rate of about 5-6%. That's not bad, but it does mean that there are over 2 million college-educated Americans who got degrees and can't find jobs. This minority is much more visible today; they get lots of press coverage and talk about their struggles through social media. This makes it seem like things are getting worse, just like how people tend to think that crime is getting worse, but the reality is things are getting better and college becomes a better deal every year.

>Then we were told what we really need is nurses. So folks went to nursing school in droves.

And generally this paid off, since nurses are in demand and make well above the median salary.

>Then we were told to go into STEM.

Which is decent advice, with a caveat. Most people with STEM degrees could easily pivot into something highly profitable like software development. What people weren't told is that it's difficult to land a profitable role doing research/pure science, especially if you don't have a PhD.

>And then a bunch of people were told they shouldn't have gotten those degrees and they were worthless.

Which is mostly incorrect. Even folks majoring in stuff often touted as "worthless" like art history or gender studies still tend to do better than people without degrees. The catch is that you might end up working a business analyst or a project manager instead of an Egyptologist or whatever you actually majored in. The biggest offender here is Psychology: many new graduates are shocked to discover that no, you cannot actually become a psychologist with just a Bachelor's degree in Psychology, nor are there profitable research opportunities at that level. A psychology degree still looks great on a resume if you're applying to be an HR representative or something, though.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#234

Post by lotsofpulp » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 9:27 PM UTC

ericbarrett wrote: post #56

Eumenes wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can find a bronze plan on the healthcare market place for < $300/month. I'm self employed, paying around that for an HSA eligible plan, and haven't seen a doctor in 5+ year. Mostly keep it for the HSA account/investing, or I'd forgo it. If your spouse has a FT/W2 job, they'd likely get solid health insurance to cover the family.

This varies wildly by state. Where I live the cheapest bronze plan in 2022 was $700/mo with no dependents.

It varies more by age. A bronze plan under $300 per month is only possible for someone in their 20s.

You can see premiums for 2023 for NJ here for all ages and plans, and adjust up or down 20% for other states.:

https://www.state.nj.us/dobi/division_insurance/ihcseh/ihcra...

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#235

Post by ryandrake » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 9:27 PM UTC

dionidium wrote: post #174

joecot wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a millennial. First we were told that we needed the college degree for a job. Any degree would do. So everyone went and got a college degree, and since so many people had it it wasn't a status symbol anymore, so that wasn't enough to get a good middle class job. And then a bunch of people were told they shouldn't have gotten those degrees and they were worthless. Then we were told to go into STEM. So lots of peop…

> First we were told that we needed the college degree for a job. Any degree would do. Something strange is happening here that I can't quite understand. Jokes about English majors asking if you want fries with that are way older than me and I first started college in 1999. Yes, I heard a persistent low rumbling of "go to college," but the idea that "any degree would do" is alien to me. Of course I knew that some maj…

Same. Early '90s. Nobody was telling us "any degree will do". They were saying "You should go to college, and if you do, major in computer science, engineering, pre-med, biotech, (sometimes) business, and so on." I remember that as a pretty consistent message during high school career guidance talks and through freshman and sophomore years in college.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#236

Post by asdff » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 9:29 PM UTC

slillibri wrote: post #232

fleddr wrote: post #222

If I had to do it all over again, I'd be a plumber. You're not stationary, you're on the move and your day has variety. You spend a lot of time in the physical world and meet lots of people. Your work might at times be smelly but is rewarding in a very direct way. You helped solve a tangible problem and your customers are grateful for it. The range of problems to solve is large, and if you widen your skills, you can…

Sure, but the downside is sometimes having to literally deal with other people’s shit.

From experience doing other smelly jobs, if you shove a bunch of vicks vapor rub all over your nostrils and wear a mask you are immune.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#237

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 9:30 PM UTC

fleddr wrote: post #222

If I had to do it all over again, I'd be a plumber. You're not stationary, you're on the move and your day has variety. You spend a lot of time in the physical world and meet lots of people. Your work might at times be smelly but is rewarding in a very direct way. You helped solve a tangible problem and your customers are grateful for it. The range of problems to solve is large, and if you widen your skills, you can…

[deleted]

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#238

Post by MrFantastic » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 9:30 PM UTC

yucky wrote: post #129

joecot wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original premise was that trades are where all the money is, and Gen Z should be listening to that. My point is that we were previously told: the money is in college degrees, the money is in STEM, the money is in nursing. And people invested a lot of time and money in taking that advice and it went nowhere. Then we were called stupid and foolish and entitled for believing that advice. So why aren't Gen Z taking t…

> The original premise was that trades are where all the money is Nobody has ever said the "trades are where all the money is". This premise is flawed already. > My point is that we were previously told: the money is in college degrees, the money is in STEM, the money is in nursing. And people invested a lot of time and money in taking that advice and it went nowhere. It still is. It sounds like too many people have…

What subject teaches Supply and Demand in High School?

I was aware of it but I only remember seeing it taught in Econ 101.

Most majors don't require Econ 101 to my knowledge.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#239

Post by lotsofpulp » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 9:31 PM UTC

ericbarrett wrote: post #26

teawrecks wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do independent plumbers have to do for healthcare for them and their families? Is there a better option than COBRA? I honestly don't know.

I had to dip into this for a few years. In the U.S., an ACA ("Obamacare") plan is $500-$2000 a month, depending on the state, with extra assistance for low incomes. There are bronze, silver, and gold plans with higher tiers decreasing copays and annual out-of-pocket maximums but significantly bumping the monthly dues. Private insurance also exists but almost universally has inferior terms (payout caps, gaps in covera…

>the annual maximum out-of-pocket payout is roughly $20,000,

https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/out-of-pocket-maximum-li...

The annual max family out of pocket is legally capped at $18,200, but most plans will be less than that.

>Another issue with ACA marketplaces that I found was they churn a lot; every year when you have to renew coverage you can have an entirely different set of providers and plans.

This is not my experience, I have been able to purchase the same BCBS health plan from the same insurer for many years.

In NJ, I would budget $30k per year for premiums for a gold level plan for a family of 4, assuming you are not getting any premium tax credits. Of course, out of pocket maximum is up to another $18k.

https://www.state.nj.us/dobi/division_insurance/ihcseh/ihcra...

>Sadly, none of this is tax-deductible as far as I can tell.

It should be tax deductible if you are self employed:

https://www.healthinsurance.org/obamacare/self-employed-heal...

And if you are working for a small business that does not offer a group health plan, you should be able to get premiums reimbursed from employer with pre tax income:

https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/qsehra/

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#240

Post by asdff » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 9:32 PM UTC

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #5

How much of this is class signifiers in the age of increasingly tenuous existences on anyone but the wealthy? I wouldn’t own a farm even with existing subsidies on agriculture specifically because it will destroy my body and then I’ll be on the hook for all that healthcare.

If you own the farm its your farmhands that are breaking their body while you sip coffee and order seed.